(October 6, 2013 at 8:32 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: I do not believe that useless DNA proves anything against creation. After all, the Holy Bible shows a curse after the fall in the garden and after the flood.

Ah, okay: please, do show us the bible verses that specifically mention junk DNA. So that we know you're just not ad hoc retrofitting an excuse out of anything you can find, you know.

Given that 98 percent of human DNA is noncoding "junk" DNA, are you actually saying that Adam and Eve had a majority share different DNA before the fall? They must have looked pretty different from a normal human!

Or are you just pulling stuff from your ass, again? Beware of prolapses!

(October 6, 2013 at 7:09 am)Darwinian Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 7:04 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: But the changes are random and not directed by an intelligence. So they are errors.

Nobody takes the bytes in a complied computer program and has the bits randomly changed and expects the program to work as well.

But only the beneficial 'errors' will be carried on to future generations. That's the whole point!

Not true if they don't kill or effect reproduction they can be passed on. Haemophelia, cystic fibrosis, MS etc survive despite being bad for the carrier.

However some changes which can bed bad can also be good, sicle cell anaemia confers some protection form malaria.

(October 6, 2013 at 10:45 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 7:09 am)Darwinian Wrote: But only the beneficial 'errors' will be carried on to future generations. That's the whole point!

Not true if they don't kill or effect reproduction they can be passed on. Haemophelia, cystic fibrosis, MS etc survive despite being bad for the carrier.

However some changes which can bed bad can also be good, sicle cell anaemia confers some protection form malaria.

I like the atom joke.

As to the mutations, they eventually accumulate in the code. What was non lethal can be become permanent in the genome and do to further errors turn more lethal when combined with the other errors.

(October 6, 2013 at 10:51 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 10:45 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Not true if they don't kill or effect reproduction they can be passed on. Haemophelia, cystic fibrosis, MS etc survive despite being bad for the carrier.

However some changes which can bed bad can also be good, sicle cell anaemia confers some protection form malaria.

I like the atom joke.

As to the mutations, they eventually accumulate in the code. What was non lethal can be become permanent in the genome and do to further errors turn more lethal when combined with the other errors.

Yes, on the individual level. No - throughout the population.

(October 6, 2013 at 10:51 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 10:45 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Not true if they don't kill or effect reproduction they can be passed on. Haemophelia, cystic fibrosis, MS etc survive despite being bad for the carrier.

However some changes which can bed bad can also be good, sicle cell anaemia confers some protection form malaria.

I like the atom joke.

As to the mutations, they eventually accumulate in the code. What was non lethal can be become permanent in the genome and do to further errors turn more lethal when combined with the other errors.

Atom joke?

(October 6, 2013 at 10:51 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: As to the mutations, they eventually accumulate in the code. What was non lethal can be become permanent in the genome and do to further errors turn more lethal when combined with the other errors.

You know what? You're right. It's the first time this has ever happened, but you, Grace, are correct.

And do you know what happens to the organisms that develop these cascading negative mutations that become fatal? They die off, leaving only those who don't have sufficiently harmful mutations to survive and propagate their species. There's a term for it: natural selection. You know, one of the driving forces of evolution?

(October 6, 2013 at 11:14 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 10:51 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: As to the mutations, they eventually accumulate in the code. What was non lethal can be become permanent in the genome and do to further errors turn more lethal when combined with the other errors.

You know what? You're right. It's the first time this has ever happened, but you, Grace, are correct.

And do you know what happens to the organisms that develop these cascading negative mutations that become fatal? They die off, leaving only those who don't have sufficiently harmful mutations to survive and propagate their species. There's a term for it: natural selection. You know, one of the driving forces of evolution?

But all individuals of all species are accumulating the same longterm corruption. There is nothing that will make it.

(October 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 11:14 am)Esquilax Wrote: You know what? You're right. It's the first time this has ever happened, but you, Grace, are correct.

And do you know what happens to the organisms that develop these cascading negative mutations that become fatal? They die off, leaving only those who don't have sufficiently harmful mutations to survive and propagate their species. There's a term for it: natural selection. You know, one of the driving forces of evolution?

But all individuals of all species are accumulating the same longterm corruption. There is nothing that will make it.

No Gracie - you were getting so close and then you lost it.

I know you only read one in ten of our posts but just on the off-chance here we go again.

95% of our DNA is junk. 5% codes for us. IF THE 5% GET A FATAL CORRUPTION THAT INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH TO BREED. The rest carry on with the junk getting corrupted but the core in tact.

As I said before. If you believe God made us then, according to your own logic, he made us with a ticking time bomb inside us. As I am sure you recognise he can't have done that the same thing applies to nature.

I'm not going to complicate the issue further by talking about what happens when non-deleterious changes happen to the 5% that is vital - but maybe you can figure that out. (Hint - are we exactly the same as we were 2,000 years ago? 5,000 years ago....)

(October 6, 2013 at 2:45 pm)max-greece Wrote:

(October 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: But all individuals of all species are accumulating the same longterm corruption. There is nothing that will make it.

No Gracie - you were getting so close and then you lost it.

I know you only read one in ten of our posts but just on the off-chance here we go again.

95% of our DNA is junk. 5% codes for us. IF THE 5% GET A FATAL CORRUPTION THAT INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH TO BREED. The rest carry on with the junk getting corrupted but the core in tact.

As I said before. If you believe God made us then, according to your own logic, he made us with a ticking time bomb inside us. As I am sure you recognise he can't have done that the same thing applies to nature.

I'm not going to complicate the issue further by talking about what happens when non-deleterious changes happen to the 5% that is vital - but maybe you can figure that out. (Hint - are we exactly the same as we were 2,000 years ago? 5,000 years ago....)

Funny how the believer will attack science then hypocritically at the same time try to use it to prop up their "Poofdaddy".

"Funny how the believer will attack science then hypocritically at the same time try to use it to prop up their "Poofdaddy"."

When you think of how reliant on science they are each and every day the hypocrisy level is astonishing. This is the same science that wakes them up in the morning to get out of the bed science developed the materials for, to wash their teeth in water from a tap in their house (science both plumbing and drainage) using toothpaste (science) to wash their face with soap (science) dry their face with a towel (science) then go into the kitchen and make a coffee (science).......and we haven't even mentioned the internet, phones, tablets, cars, radios, TV's, medicine, dish washers, washing machines, washing powders, sun protection creams, condoms, GPS, mobile data plans, electricity, traffic control systems, airports, trains,.....

In fact - its pretty much impossible to think of a single aspect of your life that doesn't rely in some way on the developments science has enabled.

All of this - they gleefully accept - but as soon as something science says contradicts a 2000 year old book written by goat-herders, translated, assembled, re-assembled and edited over centuries by persons unknown, as soon as that happens suddenly science is wrong.