(October 9, 2013 at 11:46 am)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 10:05 am)Gooders1002 Wrote: Well how do you like them apples? Also I do not believe this is the end of Christianity but it may bring out those who are not completely close minded or are unsure of their faith.

It's been pretty well established that Mormonism and the Church of Scientology started out as frauds, but do you really think that's stopped the growth of those two churches?

(October 9, 2013 at 11:33 am)max-greece Wrote: Bugger me - this should be good.

Of course we will all have to see the quality of his evidence before making a decision. A little bit suspicious that he has a book to hawk.....

(October 9, 2013 at 11:46 am)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 10:05 am)Gooders1002 Wrote: Well how do you like them apples? Also I do not believe this is the end of Christianity but it may bring out those who are not completely close minded or are unsure of their faith.

It's been pretty well established that Mormonism and the Church of Scientology started out as frauds, but do you really think that's stopped the growth of those two churches?

Quote:

Quote:I still am not convinced by your response, though, mainly because I think I'm coming at this from a different world viewpoint. For me, it's not "Was there a conspiracy?" or even "Was it a conspiracy of the Romans?" but "Which Romans came up with this deliberate divide and rule psy-ops campaign, and when, and why?"

Agreed about the different world viewpoint but what I think you are missing is that it is not yours or my viewpoint that matters but Vespasian's. Try to put yourself in his position. It is 69 AD and Vespasian has been declared emperor but he is in Egypt and did not arrive until the middle of 70 back in Rome which had been heavily damaged by fires that broke out when armies loyal to Vespasian defeated Vitellius. Titus the Younger was still involved in the siege of Jerusalem and there was a serious revolt in Germany which spread to Gaul. After 18 months of civil war the finances of the empire were in tatters.

Jerusalem was already invested and under assault when Vespasian parked his butt on the throne. It was, at that precise moment, one of the least of Vespasian's problems and both sides in that rebellion had to be fully aware of how it would end. Petillius Cerialis was despatched to deal with the serious revolts in Gaul and Germany. Vespasian busied himself with taxes including the Urine Tax from which we get the charming maxim "Pecunia non olet" ( money doesn't smell ). Anyway, Jerusalem falls in September of 70 and a single legion is left to garrison the city and mop up under a kinsman of Vespasian's, Lucius Flavius Silva. Silva completes operations by taking Masada in 73 and it is at this precise moment that Atwill expects us to believe that Vespasian is so worried about a nation that he has just utterly crushed that he goes through this charade of inventing a religion based around Titus.

Sorry, Ish. I just don't buy it. The better answer remains "Constantine" who saw in having a single religion an opportunity to unify an empire which was increasingly fracturing in the 4th century. It may have been the worst decision in history but it makes much more sense.

(October 9, 2013 at 11:41 am)John V Wrote:

(October 9, 2013 at 10:05 am)Gooders1002 Wrote: Well how do you like them apples? Also I do not believe this is the end of Christianity but it may bring out those who are not completely close minded or are unsure of their faith.

Until Oct 19, there aren't any apples to like or dislike. Interesting how people who claim to require evidence assume this is true before the evidence is presented (with the exception of DT).

(October 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: If Jesus had been invented it then would have gone something like this.

"Good news Christ has risen!"

"Who?"

"Jesus Christ was executed a few years and rose again?"

"No I don't remember him around these here parts"

"Perhaps you just forgot about him. it was about 20 years ago?"

"No I think I would remember him."

And that would have killed the movement in it's tracks.