(October 14, 2013 at 1:21 pm)Dunno Wrote: However you can't say that religion is bad, because the motive of religion is to be the peacekeeper, to do good, it is, in effect, humanity's earliest ethics, an ethics that, in all forms of religion, has a supernatural punishment if you don't follow their ethics.

On this I call bullshit. I do not think that religion is the peacekeeper of anything. It's a tool for controlling people, and those in power are more concerned about more power, good PR and gold. It's a tool to keep (especially the poor) masses checked, because if people genuinely believe that someone's always there, watching and judging, they will behave according to the dogma they have been brainwashed with. If most religious leader would practice what they preach, I could get behind your statement. But no, we see adulterous, greedy, ignorant and some down right mean people, scaring, bullying and stealing from their followers.

(October 14, 2013 at 3:33 pm)Kayenneh Wrote:

(October 14, 2013 at 1:21 pm)Dunno Wrote: However you can't say that religion is bad, because the motive of religion is to be the peacekeeper, to do good, it is, in effect, humanity's earliest ethics, an ethics that, in all forms of religion, has a supernatural punishment if you don't follow their ethics.

On this I call bullshit. I do not think that religion is the peacekeeper of anything. It's a tool for controlling people, and those in power are more concerned about more power, good PR and gold. It's a tool to keep (especially the poor) masses checked, because if people genuinely believe that someone's always there, watching and judging, they will behave according to the dogma they have been brainwashed with. If most religious leader would practice what they preach, I could get behind your statement. But no, we see adulterous, greedy, ignorant and some down right mean people, scaring, bullying and stealing from their followers.

I'm sorry if I've overused this exclamation, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVzp4MJRKHc

How ridiculous.

I'll entertain the theory that religion was once beneficial to survival, but it has mutated into a power game now really, and the deluded just haven't seen it yet. But its purpose has never been peacekeeping, have you seen the old testament? It's a manual on how to live in a warlike era. Just keep killing the outsiders. Peacekeeping my ass.

And yes, religion IS BAD.

Yes, religion is a tool for controlling people. But I'm not wrong, it's about enforcing ethics on people. And don't tell me you disagree with my ethics, I didn't fully explain them to you. As sure as the cops enforce the law, the religious enforce the law of the supernatural, and these laws are meant to be ethical truths. I'm sorry but your argument is uneducated. You say that religion is about killing the infidels, when that's against the law of most religions. If a person wants to kill infidels, it most likely isn't alright with their religion. I'll agree with you that there isn't a god but I'm not going to agree with you that religion somehow tells people to do bad stuff, and is bad, most religious people see their faith as guidance on how to lead a good life, and the majority rules.

I'm right, and you're wrong, bashing religions as if they want to harm people when all they ever do is go on and on about morality and being good to people, if a person sets out to do bad, then he's not doing religious work, even if they do it in the name of religion.

There's a difference between politics and religion, however both have power. Think of a chess board. A king, queen, bishop, knight, rook, and pawns. What is the job of the bishop? It is to be an ethical voice in the ear of the ruthless king who sets out to destroy the other king. Of course, in the game the bishop moves diagonally and also kills.

So if you're complaining about diagonal moves, remember that for the most part, it is because people do not understand ethics.

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(October 14, 2013 at 1:47 pm)Raeven Wrote: I think it is you who are wrong. Since most here believe that religion is a construct of people, then religion as it is practiced by those people IS the problem. For the very few church cultures that ONLY engage in creating a space for like-minded people to hang out, share cakes and have a gossip (I can't think of ANY that confine their activities to just these things, can you?), there are so many more who use their beliefs to create cultural divisions, assert moral superiority -- hell, superiority, period -- advance political agendas, kill and torture others, fight wars and generally impose their "ethics" on the rest of us. What the hell is ethical about THAT?

The church doesn't do that. Followers do that. The worst thing a priest would ever do to you is tell you you're going to hell. The enforcers of religion are bound to follow their ethical rules very strictly. They can't break the ten commandments.

(October 14, 2013 at 4:46 pm)Dunno Wrote: I'm right, and you're wrong, bashing religions as if they want to harm people when all they ever do is go on and on about morality and being good to people, if a person sets out to do bad, then he's not doing religious work, even if they do it in the name of religion.

Utter bullshit. The bible says homosexuality is a sin, and religious people see fit to push that moral code on the rest of society, which is sanctioned by their holy book. A person is doing religious work if they are spreading the message of their religion, regardless of whether the consequences are positive or negative. Often times being a "good person" to a religious person is not being a good person to the rest of society, and you fail to take that into consideration in your attempt to play peacemaker.

Religion does good, yes, but to say religion does only good and is only about proper ethical behavior flies in the face of thousands of years of evidence.

(October 14, 2013 at 4:17 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: How ridiculous.

I'll entertain the theory that religion was once beneficial to survival, but it has mutated into a power game now really, and the deluded just haven't seen it yet. But its purpose has never been peacekeeping, have you seen the old testament? It's a manual on how to live in a warlike era. Just keep killing the outsiders. Peacekeeping my ass.

And yes, religion IS BAD.

you're ridiculous. I said that religion was only beneficial to survival because of the power involved. The old testament isn't a manual, it's a book of stories with figurative meanings. You'd know that if you knew what you were arguing about.

(October 14, 2013 at 4:46 pm)Dunno Wrote: The worst thing a priest would ever do to you is tell you you're going to hell. The enforcers of religion are bound to follow their ethical rules very strictly. They can't break the ten commandments.

Like raping kids en masse? Oh, wait, there's no commandment that says not to fuck little kids and then cover it up.

(October 14, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Dunno Wrote: The old testament isn't a manual, it's a book of stories with figurative meanings.

So, what about those ten commandments?

(October 14, 2013 at 4:59 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Utter bullshit. The bible says homosexuality is a sin, and religious people see fit to push that moral code on the rest of society, which is sanctioned by their holy book. A person is doing religious work if they are spreading the message of their religion, regardless of whether the consequences are positive or negative. Often times being a "good person" to a religious person is not being a good person to the rest of society, and you fail to take that into consideration in your attempt to play peacemaker.

Religion does good, yes, but to say religion does only good and is only about proper ethical behavior flies in the face of thousands of years of evidence.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Mostly because there isn't homosexuality in the bible, so the bible didn't say it. If someone said it's a sin, then whatever, they can say what they want. Perhaps they just don't understand the motive of gay people because the bible says to be fruitful and multiply, and gay people physically can't multiply.

(October 14, 2013 at 5:02 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 14, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Dunno Wrote: The old testament isn't a manual, it's a book of stories with figurative meanings.

So, what about those ten commandments?

... and the creation! What about that!?

I love it when people cherry pick the whole OT out of the Bible as "figurative" or not applicable anymore. Cute. You would think the all knowing god would know people would take it seriously and warn us to not do it. I mean... it could have saved lives and hurt feelings. But what do I know?