Quote:Sorry, I still have no clue.

The single most accurate thing you have ever written, Johnny.

(October 25, 2013 at 10:43 am)Esquilax Wrote: Hmm, I didn't realize the thread was called "we hate christian charity!"

You might as well be. Here's a charity that feeds 500 people a day, but all you guys see is that they turned away ten atheists who offered to help for a day.

Quote:I thought it was called "charity won't allow atheist to help."

Yes, and you said that it's the work that's important, and differences in beliefs are petty by comparison - yet all you do is bitch about the organization's beliefs and ignore the work it does.

Quote:You know, the specific event that's unusual and blatantly discriminatory, while being of interest to atheists?

It's extremely common for groups to be based on common beliefs, and as noted the atheist group does likewise.

(October 25, 2013 at 12:11 pm)John V Wrote: You might as well be. Here's a charity that feeds 500 people a day, but all you guys see is that they turned away ten atheists who offered to help for a day.

Juuust so long as we're not being overly dramatic.

Quote:Yes, and you said that it's the work that's important, and differences in beliefs are petty by comparison - yet all you do is bitch about the organization's beliefs and ignore the work it does.

The work is important, which is why I'm so irked at an organization turning away folks who could help with that over petty ideological differences and some vague notion that you're being "targeted" by atheists, according to the woman in charge.

Quote:It's extremely common for groups to be based on common beliefs, and as noted the atheist group does likewise.

Except the atheist group also accepts help from christian groups, didn't go around badmouthing all christians based upon the actions of this one woman, and didn't spew a bunch of ignorant, baffling drivel about how christians are uncharitable and working for the devil afterward.

Understand, I'm not mad that this is a charity. I'm mad that this particular charity bit off its own nose to spite its face, and then had the gall to turn around and point the finger at the very group that was trying to help them in the first place.

This is an issue about this one shitheaded woman, not the entire organization. It might also be about the members of it that didn't see fit to call their leader on her egregious bullshit, but that's neither here nor there, and don't you dare try to characterize this as us atheists beating down on the concept of charity, John.

The atheist group has nine people signed up for the giveaway.

What prevented those people from calling up and volunteering at the soup kitchen individually, without mentioning their atheism?

(October 25, 2013 at 12:22 pm)John V Wrote: The atheist group has nine people signed up for the giveaway.

What prevented those people from calling up and volunteering at the soup kitchen individually, without mentioning their atheism?

I don't know, what made their atheism so offensive that they were driven away for being honest with their affiliation in the first place?

I find it amusing that the christian is willing to go to lies of omission in order to prove his point.

(October 25, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Esquilax Wrote: The work is important, which is why I'm so irked at an organization turning away folks who could help with that over petty ideological differences and some vague notion that you're being "targeted" by atheists, according to the woman in charge.

Except the atheist group also accepts help from christian groups, didn't go around badmouthing all christians based upon the actions of this one woman, and didn't spew a bunch of ignorant, baffling drivel about how christians are uncharitable and working for the devil afterward.

Understand, I'm not mad that this is a charity. I'm mad that this particular charity bit off its own nose to spite its face, and then had the gall to turn around and point the finger at the very group that was trying to help them in the first place.

This is an issue about this one shitheaded woman, not the entire organization. It might also be about the members of it that didn't see fit to call their leader on her egregious bullshit, but that's neither here nor there, and don't you dare try to characterize this as us atheists beating down on the concept of charity, John.

And I think you're unreasonably ignoring the fact that the atheist organization purposely escalated the situation.

It could have simply gone like this:

Atheist leader: "Hey, I called the Christian soup kitchen and they said they didn't want help from our group. Let's just volunteer there as individuals, or volunteer somewhere else for that day."

---

(October 25, 2013 at 12:28 pm)Esquilax Wrote: I find it amusing that the christian is willing to go to lies of omission in order to prove his point.

What lies of omission? Unlike you I've been striving to speak factually on the topic. I even noted a point that I discovered which I knew would hurt my position. That's going above and beyond typical standards.

(October 25, 2013 at 12:29 pm)John V Wrote:

(October 25, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Esquilax Wrote: The work is important, which is why I'm so irked at an organization turning away folks who could help with that over petty ideological differences and some vague notion that you're being "targeted" by atheists, according to the woman in charge.

Except the atheist group also accepts help from christian groups, didn't go around badmouthing all christians based upon the actions of this one woman, and didn't spew a bunch of ignorant, baffling drivel about how christians are uncharitable and working for the devil afterward.

Understand, I'm not mad that this is a charity. I'm mad that this particular charity bit off its own nose to spite its face, and then had the gall to turn around and point the finger at the very group that was trying to help them in the first place.

This is an issue about this one shitheaded woman, not the entire organization. It might also be about the members of it that didn't see fit to call their leader on her egregious bullshit, but that's neither here nor there, and don't you dare try to characterize this as us atheists beating down on the concept of charity, John.

And I think you're unreasonably ignoring the fact that the atheist organization purposely escalated the situation.

It could have simply gone like this:

Atheist leader: "Hey, I called the Christian soup kitchen and they said they didn't want help from our group. Let's just volunteer there as individuals, or volunteer somewhere else for that day."

---

(October 25, 2013 at 12:28 pm)Esquilax Wrote: I find it amusing that the christian is willing to go to lies of omission in order to prove his point.

What lies of omission? Unlike you I've been striving to speak factually on the topic. I even noted a point that I discovered which I knew would hurt my position. That's going above and beyond typical standards.

Imagine if blacks said, "Hey lets not sit in at that lunch counter, lets not make waves, lets go find a black lunch counter".

Reading further, there's a dispute about whether the atheist group demanded to wear their logo:
http://www.wspa.com/story/23773827/repor...lunteer-at

Quote:Landrum told 7 On Your Side, the Upstate Atheists were adamant about wearing their group's t-shirts and that the message goes against what the organization stands for in the bi-laws. Landrum says the group would be welcomed any day - as long as they weren't wearing the t-shirts with the atheist message.

"All I want to say is that, don't try to hurt this ministry, because they want to be here 1 day, we operate 365 days a year, so any negative publicity will only hurt this ministry," Landrum said of the backlash of the situation. She says she's received angry phone calls and facebook messages.

Brannon says the group was open to not wearing the t-shirts during the volunteering, and that the hateful comments aren't coming from its members.

---

And some more:
http://www.wyff4.com/news/local-news/spa...index.html

Quote:Kyle Cusick, a member of Upstate Atheists, posted a comment on a GoUpstate story about the conflict saying, "I was hoping we'd not only be able to volunteer at the soup kitchen, but also to wear our Upstate Atheists shirts. Not because we are trying to 'convert' people to atheism, but because we want people to understand that atheists are not evil people …

"If we could go to places like the Soup Kitchen, volunteer our time and be openly atheist, then the world would start to understand that we can be good people. We're not trying to get you to be an atheist. We just want you to be OK with us being atheist."

My atheist group runs into this kind of resistance a little now and again. We're a fairly large bunch, and we like to do altruistic works within our community. We have a couple of pet charity organizations which we've "targeted" for our good works, the local women's shelter being one, and the food bank for another. We never mention what brings us together as a group, and we never advertise the fact. But invariably, someone will ask, "So what's your group?" By then, we're well into whatever we're doing: Cleaning the shelter, dropping off or passing out food or gift cards, raising money, etc., and simply reply, "Oh, atheists."

I guess a lot of religiously-oriented folks have the hardest time believing that atheists are intrinsically giving and charitable, as much as any other human beings. We enjoy helping for the sake of it, have no need to advertise our affiliation (though it frequently comes up) -- and enjoy the opportunity to gently educate our community in this way. We let the way others treat us stand as its own truth about intolerance and hatefulness. Mostly, people are just mildly surprised but remain very grateful. Once in awhile, we run into someone more like the woman cited in the article. Her problem, not ours. We won't stop doing what we do.

(October 25, 2013 at 12:22 pm)John V Wrote: What prevented those people from calling up and volunteering at the soup kitchen individually, without mentioning their atheism?

Quite a few groups make sure you're "one of them" before they'll allow you to volunteer for them. The Salvation Army, for instance, makes all employees and volunteers sign a paper saying that they won't drink alcohol.

From the sound of it, I'm sure this lady only wanted hardcore Christian fundamentalists to work in her soup kitchen.