You have concluded that without god the universe has no meaning, therefore god must exist. But what do you have to show that the universe must have meaning? Nothing more than your desire for it to be so.
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You have concluded that without god the universe has no meaning
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Haven't thought about it that way before but thinking about now, that would be true.
If the U. status quo continues for the next trillion years the limited heat will be so disorganized by scattering to an expanding area that information will not be accessible. But that won't happen since the status quo won't continue. In fact, the probability is near certainty, that within 1000 years + 7 years + a figure less than 1000 years (99% estimated certainty) the U. will no longer exist; but that a subject for another day.

(October 27, 2013 at 1:26 am)snowtracks Wrote: but as you may know, Christ spend an eternity in hell for each person so they could avoid it. probably would help to comprehend this if thought of as transacted on an ∞ timeline for each individual. God evidently has access to a time plane (or something equivalent) which consist of an infinite number of timelines each of which can be expanded or contracted to control the time rate. to believe or not believe that this happened, determines one's eternal destiny.

that's the way a person avoids hell, believe that Christ has already spend an eternity there for the individual; nothing else is required.

(October 2, 2013 at 7:55 am)themonkeyman Wrote: By the end I was concrete in my opinion that God 'May' Exist but if he does we are all pretty much fucked as he Isn't very stable minded.

I came to a similar realization late into my Christian life. This is most likely the reason so many pick and choose what they read out of the bible. They want to believe in the more loving, forgiving 'New Testament' God that'll let you in for being a good person. Not the brutal OT God that has no problem smiting you for speaking out against him and not having to defend himself because he's the creator of all things.

But if hell is the only reason one worships God then it's not faith nor does it have anything to do with faith. It's fear and that is a terrible foundation for any relationship.

(October 27, 2013 at 1:26 am)snowtracks Wrote: but as you may know, Christ spend an eternity in hell for each person so they could avoid it.

That doesn't make sense. If he spent an eternity in hell, then he is there now and he always will be. He cannot have spent an eternity for each person, since an eternity is basically forever.

The Bible tells us he was dead for three days and a half. That's not an eternity. And for an eternal being, that amount of time is not even the blink of an eye. And it's remarkably unfair for that same being to condemn others to an eternity of punishment.

(November 5, 2013 at 6:33 am)Tonus Wrote:

(October 27, 2013 at 1:26 am)snowtracks Wrote: but as you may know, Christ spend an eternity in hell for each person so they could avoid it.

That doesn't make sense. If he spent an eternity in hell, then he is there now and he always will be. He cannot have spent an eternity for each person, since an eternity is basically forever.

The Bible tells us he was dead for three days and a half. That's not an eternity. And for an eternal being, that amount of time is not even the blink of an eye. And it's remarkably unfair for that same being to condemn others to an eternity of punishment.

Why is it unfair for God to punish for an eternity, would it actually be fair to reward for eternity and then not punish for eternity?

GC

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(November 5, 2013 at 4:28 am)ToriJ Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 7:55 am)themonkeyman Wrote: By the end I was concrete in my opinion that God 'May' Exist but if he does we are all pretty much fucked as he Isn't very stable minded.

I came to a similar realization late into my Christian life. This is most likely the reason so many pick and choose what they read out of the bible.

How is it you believe that Christians pick and choose what they read from scripture? Are you judging others by what you practiced?

TJ Wrote:They want to believe in the more loving, forgiving 'New Testament' God that'll let you in for being a good person. Not the brutal OT God that has no problem smiting you for speaking out against him and not having to defend himself because he's the creator of all things.

In another thread I mentioned I did not think you had learned much while you were in church, this above statement you made reassures me of that. The whole statement is wrong.

TJ Wrote:But if hell is the only reason one worships God then it's not faith nor does it have anything to do with faith. It's fear and that is a terrible foundation for any relationship.

I agree, fear is no way to have a relationship and, Jesus shows us that love and peace are the foundation of a relationship with God.

GC

(November 5, 2013 at 6:33 am)Tonus Wrote:

(October 27, 2013 at 1:26 am)snowtracks Wrote: but as you may know, Christ spend an eternity in hell for each person so they could avoid it.

That doesn't make sense. If he spent an eternity in hell, then he is there now and he always will be. He cannot have spent an eternity for each person, since an eternity is basically forever.

The Bible tells us he was dead for three days and a half. That's not an eternity. And for an eternal being, that amount of time is not even the blink of an eye. And it's remarkably unfair for that same being to condemn others to an eternity of punishment.

God evidently has access to a time plane (or something equivalent) which consist of an infinite number of timelines each of which can be expanded or contracted to control the time rate. He is not usher along the cosmic timeline, nor controlled in anyway by it including it's cause and effect one direction property since He is supra-dimensional to time and space.
'torment' is more correctly translated 'restraint'. the more one demonstrates earthly evil, the more restraint they will have in hell. this is to protect others from those that would unleash their most destructive capabilities. Why are they there? they have demonstrated their desires to want nothing to do with God, so He allows them their wishes but still provide them with protection from the most evil and vile. remember, God is true to his nature, and His nature doesn't allow torment. hell's inhabitants don't like there but they want independence from God even more so God accommodates them. Evidently, God creates spiritual being to live forever. there will be a new heaven and earth (Universe), and it will be sealed off from hell.

Think of an individual timeline for each individual eternity conpressed down to a few hours.

I want some of what Snowballed is smoking.

Magic wand waving? Yeah, that tidies up things.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why is it unfair for God to punish for an eternity, would it actually be fair to reward for eternity and then not punish for eternity?

What he is punishing is unfair because he set up the circumstances which led to such a need in the first place.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: How is it you believe that Christians pick and choose what they read from scripture? Are you judging others by what you practiced?

Observation. The bible says a woman is not to speak in the temple. How many women speak during church? How many women are preachers?

They're always quoting scripture about how God condemns homosexuality and then ignore all the other things he condemns in the bible, or condones for that matter. Such as slavery. How many Christians condones slavery?

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: In another thread I mentioned I did not think you had learned much while you were in church, this above statement you made reassures me of that. The whole statement is wrong.

How is it wrong and in which area? Wouldn't it be the church's fault for not teaching me correctly? Why are so many churches teaching different things and interpreting scripture differently? Why doesn't someone step in to correct this?

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: I agree, fear is no way to have a relationship and, Jesus shows us that love and peace are the foundation of a relationship with God.

And his father sends you to a place of torment if you don't. But sons are usually more rational than their fathers.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why is it unfair for God to punish for an eternity, would it actually be fair to reward for eternity and then not punish for eternity?

That depends. What is the cutoff for going to hell or to heaven? And are the punishments and rewards the same for everyone who falls into one of the categories?

(November 6, 2013 at 4:55 am)ToriJ Wrote:

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why is it unfair for God to punish for an eternity, would it actually be fair to reward for eternity and then not punish for eternity?

What he is punishing is unfair because he set up the circumstances which led to such a need in the first place.

Scripture tells us that God doesn't tempt, so how is it you can blame God for your sin, did He force you to make wrong decisions. If you happen to be talking about Adam and Eve, then you must believe that God shouldn't have given us choice.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: How is it you believe that Christians pick and choose what they read from scripture? Are you judging others by what you practiced?

Quote:Observation. The bible says a woman is not to speak in the temple. How many women speak during church? How many women are preachers?

That's all you got, surely you can do better than that, is the temple the same as the church. The temple is a building after all.

Quote:They're always quoting scripture about how God condemns homosexuality and then ignore all the other things he condemns in the bible, or condones for that matter. Such as slavery. How many Christians condones slavery?

I do not know of any Christians that condone slavery, yet there are tens of thousands of atheist who believe in slave trafficking young girls in the sex slave trade.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: In another thread I mentioned I did not think you had learned much while you were in church, this above statement you made reassures me of that. The whole statement is wrong.

Quote:How is it wrong and in which area? Wouldn't it be the church's fault for not teaching me correctly? Why are so many churches teaching different things and interpreting scripture differently? Why doesn't someone step in to correct this?

It's your responsibility to learn, if you believed the church was teaching you wrong you should have gone to scripture to find the truth. I do not always take even my pastor as teaching everything right, so I investigate. People usually join a denomination because it teaches for the most part what they believe, if you did not think what you were being taught was correct you could have searched out a different denomination. Most all denominations that I know teach salvation through belief in Christ and grace by the Father.

(November 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: I agree, fear is no way to have a relationship and, Jesus shows us that love and peace are the foundation of a relationship with God.

Quote:And his father sends you to a place of torment if you don't. But sons are usually more rational than their fathers.

You are the one who chooses hell, you could choose Christ you know. Besides you are punished for your unforgiven sin, one can get into heaven by not committing any sins. I knew you did not learn much when you were in church or you would know the Father and Son are of one mind.

GC