They are indeed different.

Are you being a pratt TW?

(January 31, 2010 at 6:39 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Are you being a pratt TW?

Aren't we emotional today?

Well a mindless windup is always nice no matter what time of day TW. Thanks for putting in the effort

(January 19, 2010 at 11:38 am)Eilonnwy Wrote:

(January 19, 2010 at 11:02 am)FaithvsFact Wrote: Thus, you are not the target of my post. My scope is for the bona-fide strong atheist. Are you all agnostic atheists or apatheists? I wonder if there are any genuine strong atheists on this forum?

I will keep pressing on.

You will be hard pressed to find one who specifically makes that claim because I think most atheists here are intellectual honest and recognize the difficulty in asserting a negative.

Well I'm glad you say "most" because clearly there are some atheists who do make that claim! And they are the ones I am most interested in for the purposes of this post. I am going through everyone's replies and picking out who the strong atheists are. I previously said that you are not one of them so I will continue.

I'll go further and say that there are no strong or gnostic atheists here as unlike say, gnostic theists, we tend to rely on the scientific principle and base things on evidence and probability.

(January 26, 2010 at 1:35 am)chatpilot Wrote: After seeing the title of this thread I did some thinking about my particular opinion and position on the matter. I personally do not think that it takes faith to assert that there is no god because I have come to my position by reviewing the evidence or lack thereof for and against the matter, and after weighing it carefully have come to the conclusion that god does not exist.

My position is not based on faith but rather it is based on the facts that I have found to the contrary. Weighing the evidence for the existence of god with faith on one end of the scale and all other research of the issue on the other; faith, loses in a convincing manner. Faith does not rely on evidence, it relies on your acceptance of an assertion based on subjective feelings, emotions, or convictions of others. My definition of faith is that of many free thinkers and that is that faith is the abandonment of logic and reason and the subjugation of ones mind and true self to an ideology.

Chat Pilot - you honestly seem to be the most consistent in sticking to the topic of my OP and you also are a strong atheist so thanks for your patience as I compile the rest of the answers by all the other strong atheist posters in here. Far out work has been crazy and things after work just have not stopped happening these last few weeks. I do want to get to the next bit - please continue to be a bit patient with this!

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(February 5, 2010 at 9:02 am)Darwinian Wrote: I'll go further and say that there are no strong or gnostic atheists here as unlike say, gnostic theists, we tend to rely on the scientific principle and base things on evidence and probability.

Hi. Would you call yourself a strong atheist? Because your answer is interesting to me. If you are a Strong Atheist could you please answer the two questions I've posed in my OP. Thanks.

(February 5, 2010 at 9:02 am)Darwinian Wrote: I'll go further and say that there are no strong or gnostic atheists here as unlike say, gnostic theists, we tend to rely on the scientific principle and base things on evidence and probability.

Well, I'd say chatpilot is certainly one (if he isn't then I don't know what would qualify). And he also admits it I believe.

EvF

(February 5, 2010 at 8:41 am)FaithvsFact Wrote: Well I'm glad you say "most" because clearly there are some atheists who do make that claim! And they are the ones I am most interested in for the purposes of this post. I am going through everyone's replies and picking out who the strong atheists are. I previously said that you are not one of them so I will continue.

To what end? You may pick up a few hard lined atheists who fit the definition that you are desperately searching for, but whatever you prove about them will not bolster your stance as a Christian.

In continuing on from my OP, I've identified there are probably two self-admitted strong atheists in this thread:

ChatPilot (posts #30, 37, 59, 67, 87)
Binny (post #36)

I believe there could be more (please sing out if there are on this thread and if so please reply to my two questions in my OP) but the remainder appear not to be strong atheists. I obviously do not include any Christians who might be answering questions.

The title of this thread is that "Strong Atheism starts from faith". To repeat from my OP, the scope of this post is NOT to prove that God exists or not (although of course, as a Christian, I already have a position on that). This is best left to another thread/ forum altogether. As I said earlier, I am only interested in replies to whether God exists or not (whatever concept of God is chosen) ONLY TO THE EXTENT it establishes whether you are a strong atheist or a weak atheist.

Both ChatPilot and Binny have given, in various ways, their answers to my two questions in my OP which were:

(1) Please define what you consider to be the basis or method for establishing fact
(2) Please define what you consider to be faith, and how do you see this is different from fact?

They have both, in their own ways, defined what is fact, and how it is established. They have also defined, in their own ways, what is faith, and how this is different from fact.

Can I please confirm there are no more strong atheists in this forum as I would like to gain the biggest survey sample, first if possible, otherwise I will continue with my discussion based on the answers ChatPilot and Binny have given.

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(February 5, 2010 at 10:03 am)Eilonnwy Wrote:

(February 5, 2010 at 8:41 am)FaithvsFact Wrote: Well I'm glad you say "most" because clearly there are some atheists who do make that claim! And they are the ones I am most interested in for the purposes of this post. I am going through everyone's replies and picking out who the strong atheists are. I previously said that you are not one of them so I will continue.

To what end? You may pick up a few hard lined atheists who fit the definition that you are desperately searching for, but whatever you prove about them will not bolster your stance as a Christian.

LOL Eilonnwy, if you read my OP I very clearly say what my end is: I am asserting that the strong atheist starts from a position of faith, based on their definitions of faith. I am working now to discuss/ establish this based on actual answers from strong atheists out there. Some do exist on this forum so it is they who are the focus of my thread if they are willing to participate.