(December 6, 2013 at 6:17 am)Lion IRC Wrote: A great and humble man who loved God and loved his neighbor.

We didn't know he believed, Thanks for the update.

We don't care what he believed, what made him great was his reflection of the compassionate side of our species evolution, not his god belief.

I care what he believed.

So, Calgary Cruz made the mistake of praising a black man most famous for his opposition to white racism on his Facebook page. His Tea Party supporters were predictably unhappy about it, to say the least.

(December 6, 2013 at 7:16 am)Lion IRC Wrote: I care what he believed.

No shit, because you stupidly think the God of Jesus beat everyone else to the patient office on the issue of our existence and stupidly think that morality is supernatural.

Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists also think their comic book clubs invented human morality.

None of you idiots ever consider that when we, as a species do good, it is because our evolution collectively has displayed the ability to do good.

You get focused on superstition and magical claims and comic book clubs.

He, like King and Malala, are NOT my heros because of what they believe, they are my hero because they represent the best in humanity.

Religion IS NOT NEEDED to understand that humans have ALWAYS displayed BOTH our ability to be cruel and compassionate.

(December 6, 2013 at 5:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 6, 2013 at 7:16 am)Lion IRC Wrote: I care what he believed.

No shit, because you stupidly think the God of Jesus beat everyone else to the patient office on the issue of our existence and stupidly think that morality is supernatural.

God beats everything. Before anything was here, He is.

Quote:....Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists also think their comic book clubs invented human morality.

Theist morality is mostly transcendent. Atheist morality is...????
Oh yeah, I forgot, you guys are still trying to work out whether objective evil even exists. Does Mr Krauss still maintain that 2+2 can sometimes equal 5?

Quote:...None of you idiots ever consider that when we, as a species do good, it is because our evolution collectively has displayed the ability to do good.

I have given this sentence close consideration.
When we do good it's because we display the ability to do good ???
WUT?

Quote:...You get focused on superstition and magical claims and comic book clubs.

Nope. Not me. I don't focus on the claims - YOU do!

Quote:...He, like King and Malala, are NOT my heros because of what they believe, they are my hero because they represent the best in humanity.

Beliefs and values guide ACTIONS!

Quote:...Religion IS NOT NEEDED to understand that humans have ALWAYS displayed BOTH our ability to be cruel and compassionate.

My theology holds that we are made in the likeness of God. We are spiritual beings who have free will volition to choose between cruely and compassion, right and wrong, good and evil, heaven and hell, freedom or slavery.

RIP Nelson Mandela.

Can we not use this thread for stupid fights? Have some fucking respect, people.

Respect for what? South Africa - a region that hasn't advanced one iota in the last 30 years (my life time thus far)? Oddly enough that includes his presidential term.

The world is a better place for having known him. I almost cried when I heard the news.

(December 6, 2013 at 9:31 pm)Aractus Wrote: Respect for what? South Africa - a region that hasn't advanced one iota in the last 30 years (my life time thus far)? Oddly enough that includes his presidential term.

So the ending of apartheid 20 years ago isn't an advancement in your opinion?

Quote:You mean more people that take up arms against their own governments? Or could you be more specific?

Yes, taking up arms against his government was a wonderful start (and an act with a long and honourable tradition).

But I was thinking more of his ability to not seek or encourage revenge against the people who jailed him for 27 years. With Mandela's prestige and popularity, he could have easily plunged South Africa into a bloody and destructive civil war. Instead, he opted to work with those who had wronged him to end an unjust and inhumane policy.

Making up 'what if' scenarios about history is a risky proposition at best, but I think we're on fairly safe ground to claim that history would have been different without Mr. Mandela.

Boru