(December 21, 2013 at 10:06 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Especially those that contact the dead. What the hell, how can people even try to con grieving people?

I dunno. I mean, I know this is going off into an ethical/philosophical direction, but if a psychic is able to give a grieving mother some peace of mind, is it really such a bad thing? I mean, it's still bullshit and no, they aren't actually talking to the dead, but if this helps someone cope, what's wrong with it?

(December 21, 2013 at 2:58 pm)TaraJo Wrote: I dunno. I mean, I know this is going off into an ethical/philosophical direction, but if a psychic is able to give a grieving mother some peace of mind, is it really such a bad thing? I mean, it's still bullshit and no, they aren't actually talking to the dead, but if this helps someone cope, what's wrong with it?

That someone profits from selling a service they can't provide and keeps a culture based on ignorance alive.

(December 21, 2013 at 10:49 am)là bạn điên Wrote: All religions live off the gullible. What is the difference between what my mother does and what any other person who is paid by a religion does?

Nothing; and that's the whole point. In one sweeping sentence you simultaneously deride the actions of the religious and defend your mother for doing the exact same thing, all based on the principle of caveat emptor. Then you get all offended when people tell you what you ought to have expected that they think. Using your own aged mother as bait to flame a forum? That's even more disgusting than the responses you got.

(December 21, 2013 at 2:44 pm)là bạn điên Wrote:

(December 21, 2013 at 1:06 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: The result is the same, no? Really, everyone is responsible for their own actions, earning a living off grieving people because she really believes doesn't give them their money back.

If everyone is responsible for their own actions then people who apply to see mediums are also responsible for their own actions....

Yea of course. But how does that absolve your mother of her responsibility? She decides to charge for her services and live off the vulnerable.

(December 21, 2013 at 10:49 am)là bạn điên Wrote: ]

You fail to actually read my post. My mother actually believes. She is not trying to con anyone.

If she's not trying to con anyone, why is she charging for her "services"?

(December 21, 2013 at 2:50 pm)Kayenneh Wrote:

(December 21, 2013 at 2:44 pm)là bạn điên Wrote: Why is ignorance no excuse? Because you say so? She really beleives and like any other cleric does what she thinks is right. She is almost 80 and not going to be changing here mind any time soon.

No, not because I say so, but because several studies and years of medical research proves her wrong. Belief has nothing to do with it and your mother is a quack.

IF you are going to play the rationalist card then you can't act like a Christian and play games of sophistry.

You have claimed that ignorance is no excuse and yet use a claim that such 'healing' does not work because medical research says so as evidence that 'ignorance is no excuse. These are direct non sequiters.

I am not challenging the opinion that spiritual healing does not work on any level other than that of the placebo, what I am challenging ,directly is your claim that 'ignorance is no excuse'.

Why is ignorance no excuse?

(December 22, 2013 at 12:55 am)là bạn điên Wrote: IF you are going to play the rationalist card then you can't act like a Christian and play games of sophistry.

Uh, what? Christian? Sophistry? I think your emotions are getting in the way of actually understanding what I earlier wrote.

Quote:Why is ignorance no excuse?

Because if one poses as a professional, one should have the knowledge that comes with the field. I repeat, if you mother sees it fit to take money from others, claiming that she provides anything else than placebo, she is dishonest and a fraud. To say that one believes is a cop-out, one should know.

(December 21, 2013 at 2:54 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote:

(December 21, 2013 at 2:44 pm)là bạn điên Wrote: How disgusting you are. You want my mother, silly as she is, to have a slow and painfull death because she thinks she is helping someone? You really are a most unpleasant person.

She doesn't think she's helping anyone. She's a pathological liar who is out to exploit vulnerable people for financial gain. If you believe she she doesn't know exactly what she's doing, then you're as gullible as any of the people she's ripped off.

My Mother is not a pathological liar. She is deeply dedicated to what she does.
She is no more a pathological liar than any religious person. I think you have serious issues.

---

Quote:Uh, what? Christian? Sophistry? I think your emotions are getting in the way of actually understanding what I earlier wrote.

Then you think wrong. You reply was a non sequiter. I am not very emotional. I don;t even get very emotional when someone as despicable as Nora brimstone wishes my mother a slow and painfull death

Quote:Because if one poses as a professional, one should have the knowledge that comes with the field. I repeat, if you mother sees it fit to take money from others, claiming that she provides anything else than placebo, she is dishonest and a fraud. To say that one believes is a cop-out, one should know.

She 'poses' as a professional medium. The healing bit comes free. As a medium she is as 'qualified' as any priest or Imam. Priests do the same thing when they 'pray for you'.

You haven't explained why beleif is a 'cop out' you have just claimed it is without justification

---

(December 21, 2013 at 3:50 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(December 21, 2013 at 10:49 am)là bạn điên Wrote: All religions live off the gullible. What is the difference between what my mother does and what any other person who is paid by a religion does?

Nothing; and that's the whole point. In one sweeping sentence you simultaneously deride the actions of the religious and defend your mother for doing the exact same thing, all based on the principle of caveat emptor. Then you get all offended when people tell you what you ought to have expected that they think. Using your own aged mother as bait to flame a forum? That's even more disgusting than the responses you got.

I am not all offended'(except by norabrimstone) though I do think this pack mentality is rather unpleasant. I treat my mother as I would If I was the child of a Vicar. I don't beleive in it but nothing I will do will change here mind and she is far too old to change. If it were my 20 year old neice it would be a different matter.

I am certainly not flaming a forum.I am bringing up for discussion how one treats someone who is in your familly with very different views.

However I accept many opf you get your kicks by being aggressive and abusive so just carry on.

(December 22, 2013 at 6:29 am)là bạn điên Wrote: My Mother is not a pathological liar. She is deeply dedicated to what she does.
She is no more a pathological liar than any religious person. I think you have serious issues.

Hell yeah I have issues. Massive issues with people who deliberately seek out vulnerable grieving people to steal money from. I can think of few things crueler than what those frauds do. Lying through your arse and using a person's emotions against them, and then taking money from them for the privilege is a horrible thing to do once, but to do it for a living... Well that takes a special kind of sociopathic cunt to do without feeling guilty enough to commit suicide.

Now, unless you are suggesting your mother has some psychotic disorder that makes her believe she has magical powers and hears voices (in which case, you should have gotten her medical help decades ago) then she knows exactly what she's doing.

Ignorance is no excuse because she's clearly not ignorant.

(December 22, 2013 at 6:29 am)là bạn điên Wrote: Then you think wrong.

Might very well be, but what especially baffles me is why you brought up "actin like a christian" in the first place, what has that got to do with anything?

Quote:She 'poses' as a professional medium. The healing bit comes free.

(Bolding mine.)
So people pay her money for.. absolutely nothing?

Quote:As a medium she is as 'qualified' as any priest or Imam. Priests do the same thing when they 'pray for you'.

Argumentum ad populum. It doesn't justify her behaviour, just because other frauds do the same.

Quote:You haven't explained why beleif is a 'cop out' you have just claimed it is without justification

Third and last time, belief is not knowledge. To cloak one's ignorance in the sanctimonious thought that belief is somehow holy and cannot be up for scrutinization, is ridiculous. If you cannot grasp this, I have nothing further to say to you on the matter.