(January 10, 2014 at 2:29 pm)Mr Greene Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 12:51 pm)Drich Wrote: Sorcery is not about harry potter magic, it is about using things like herbs and chants to get a desired result, from something as small as getting rid of a head ache or giving someone a head ache to killing them or healing them. Sorcery is about seeking means of changing one's situation outside of God. It is seeking to by pass God in hopes to control or manage one's own life, through other 'powers.'

So someone chewing Willow bark to get relief from a headache is sorcery?

it depends on their motives. Are they doing it as a way to petition a demon or Spirit to help them get rid of their head ache?

To put it another way sorcery is a way for a person to trade a 'favor' for a 'bit -o-magic' from a demon.

One man can chew the willow bark for the Salicin (the percursor of asprin) and another may do it to curry favor for some spirit or anti saint of fever and head aches... The act is the same, the determining factor is the heart and intention of the man doing the chewing.

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(January 10, 2014 at 2:33 pm)JuliaL Wrote: I'm just trying to pin you down on what this 'sorcery' thing is that is being proscribed.

It is a 'prayer' to a spirit or the devil/demon using tokins to curry favor.

Quote:Is it currently extant?

Yes as it sorcery is not about the result but the act of petitioning.

Quote: Is it natural or supernatural or both.

neither. It is a desire to obtain 'X' (whatever 'X' maybe) while bypassing God.

Quote:If it has extension into our reality, where is it?
I think JREF is willing to give you a $million if you can show it does.
If you won't collect the money, will you tell me how so I can? I'm willing to take the risk of condemning my immortal soul for a cool mil.

Think about that for a minute. If it is demonstraitable then the source of said power would be Demons and spirits, meaning you would indeed be giving up your soul.

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(January 10, 2014 at 2:37 pm)StoryBook Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:08 pm)Drich Wrote: This is a Strawman arguement, your rebuttal does not repersent my position.

I said that Chants, and 'drugs' and the like were used as a means to bypass God, and appeal to spirits/demons.. Using drugs is not an automatic appeal to demons/spirits for help.

Make up your bloody mind and stop contradicting yourself.
Pain medications are drugs, some come from herbs if you want to be specific.
YOU said using such things is to get rid of something such as " the pain of a headache" is sorcery.

Ive said this 10 times now. It is not the drug, but why you take it. go back and reread what i have written to everyone if you want examples.

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:If it has extension into our reality, where is it?
I think JREF is willing to give you a $million if you can show it does.
If you won't collect the money, will you tell me how so I can? I'm willing to take the risk of condemning my immortal soul for a cool mil.

Think about that for a minute. If it is demonstraitable then the source of said power would be Demons and spirits, meaning you would indeed be giving up your soul.

OK I thought about it. My answer is
Yes!Yes!Yes! Give me the million!

1) I can scam some other sucker into doing the deal for a meager split.
2) Even if I have to go through with the demonstration, I can accept your whipping boy later and gain absolution.

The fact that nobody has been able to demonstrate said power EVER is evidence that said power is imaginary.

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: Ive said this 10 times now. It is not the drug, but why you take it. go back and reread what i have written to everyone if you want examples.

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: To put it another way sorcery is a way for a person to trade a 'favor' for a 'bit -o-magic' from a demon.

One man can chew the willow bark for the Salicin (the percursor of asprin) and another may do it to curry favor for some spirit or anti saint of fever and head aches... The act is the same, the determining factor is the heart and intention of the man doing the chewing.

What difference does it make, you are getting the same results... Whether it is praying to god, science,sorcery, or the devil. How do you know that it wasn't the devil that answered your prayer, instead of god.(opp did I just do that thing, you said I did earlier?).

(January 10, 2014 at 2:52 pm)JuliaL Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: Think about that for a minute. If it is demonstraitable then the source of said power would be Demons and spirits, meaning you would indeed be giving up your soul.

OK I thought about it. My answer is
Yes!Yes!Yes! Give me the million!

1) I can scam some other sucker into doing the deal for a meager split.
2) Even if I have to go through with the demonstration, I can accept your whipping boy later and gain absolution.

The fact that nobody has been able to demonstrate said power EVER is evidence that said power is imaginary.

It is not the power that make Sorcery, Sorcery. It is the act of the petitioning.

It has its roots in this article from the Onion. No, seriously, this moral panic was a result of people who thought the Onion was supposed to be taken seriously.

(January 10, 2014 at 3:02 pm)StoryBook Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: Ive said this 10 times now. It is not the drug, but why you take it. go back and reread what i have written to everyone if you want examples.

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: To put it another way sorcery is a way for a person to trade a 'favor' for a 'bit -o-magic' from a demon.

One man can chew the willow bark for the Salicin (the percursor of asprin) and another may do it to curry favor for some spirit or anti saint of fever and head aches... The act is the same, the determining factor is the heart and intention of the man doing the chewing.

What difference does it make, you are getting the same results... Whether it is praying to god, science,sorcery, or the devil. How do you know that it wasn't the devil that answered your prayer, instead of god.(opp did I just do that thing, you said I did earlier?).

It think you understand sorcery, just not the ramification of 'oweing' the devil a debt.

(January 10, 2014 at 3:02 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:52 pm)JuliaL Wrote: OK I thought about it. My answer is
Yes!Yes!Yes! Give me the million!

1) I can scam some other sucker into doing the deal for a meager split.
2) Even if I have to go through with the demonstration, I can accept your whipping boy later and gain absolution.

The fact that nobody has been able to demonstrate said power EVER is evidence that said power is imaginary.

It is not the power that make Sorcery, Sorcery. It is the act of the petitioning.

Totally non-sequitur and irrelevant.
Tell me how, man! I want the demonstration to get the money.
If some other chump actually does the petitioning and disappears in a puff of sulfur it's no skin off my body parts. It's actually better that way because I don't have to split the take.
I just need the demonstration to get the Amazing Randi's cash.
How? Buddy How? Give details.

and to bring the topic full circle, by trivializing sorcery through recerational fiction, one helps the devil obscure it's true meaning making true sorcery a novel or acceptiable practice.

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(January 10, 2014 at 3:16 pm)JuliaL Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 3:02 pm)Drich Wrote: It is not the power that make Sorcery, Sorcery. It is the act of the petitioning.

Totally non-sequitur and irrelevant.
Tell me how, man! I want the demonstration to get the money.
If some other chump actually does the petitioning and disappears in a puff of sulfur it's no skin off my body parts. It's actually better that way because I don't have to split the take.
I just need the demonstration to get the Amazing Randi's cash.
How? Buddy How? Give details.

If you don't know how to google search something like sorcery at this point in your life then perhaps you should back burner sorcery for a while, and focous on the more basic stuff first.

(January 10, 2014 at 3:18 pm)Drich Wrote: and to bring the topic full circle, by trivializing sorcery through recerational fiction, one helps the devil obscure it's true meaning making true sorcery a novel or acceptiable practice.

DUDE! getting a million in cash is NOT trivial. It's serious business.
Though I think recreation, fictional or otherwise, is easier to come by with that much moolah.

We're talking about whether you can show your position on sorcery is valid.
It isn't charitable to not help me get a MegaBuck. Shame on you.
Heck, I'll cut you in.

(January 10, 2014 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote:

(January 10, 2014 at 2:29 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: So someone chewing Willow bark to get relief from a headache is sorcery?

it depends on their motives. Are they doing it as a way to petition a demon or Spirit to help them get rid of their head ache?

To put it another way sorcery is a way for a person to trade a 'favor' for a 'bit -o-magic' from a demon.

One man can chew the willow bark for the Salicin (the percursor of asprin) and another may do it to curry favor for some spirit or anti saint of fever and head aches... The act is the same, the determining factor is the heart and intention of the man doing the chewing.

So it's sorcery if you have a headache and take a couple of aspirin in the name of The Mighty Jagrafess of the Holy Hadrojassic Maxarodenfoe?