(January 15, 2014 at 12:52 pm)Wunsbee Wrote: My mother is outright forcing me to talk to a minister and priest. Basically they're trying to make me believe again. It's incredible frustrating and I don't know how to deal with all of this. HEEELP MEEE?

i recently had a similar situation of leaving religion. what i suggest, since its what i did and i dont know if you have attepmted this. Learn about what atheists say about religion and understand the given points and not just tell your parents "i dont believe", tell them why. I have some threads that talk about common arguments in religion

(January 16, 2014 at 1:51 am)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I hop you reconsider the path atheism leads to. Hell is not a good place to go.

Christians would be much better witnesses if they listened to me, but they do more to make atheists and keep atheists than I ever could.

But I keep offering the free advice, secure in the knowledge that the ones who need it never listen:

Never bring up or imply hell. It's argument ad baculum, it's a fallacy (basically 'agree with me or else') and as nonsensical as a Buddhist trying to convince you to change your ways to avoid the hell of taking showers with bathtubs full of cats.

Suck your mark in first. Stick with the love and heaven and good morals and fabulous miracles. It's just stupid to bring up hell if you haven't convinced them of the other stuff first. Don't tell them about the horrendous torture in store for them if they try to leave the Family...er, backslide from adoring and worshiping Jesus, until it's too late for them to back out. It's just common sense.

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(January 16, 2014 at 11:49 am)Wunsbee Wrote:

(January 16, 2014 at 11:46 am)Crossless1 Wrote: It sounds like you handled yourself well. I'm curious to know what, if anything, your parents had to say after your meeting. Is this the beginning of an ordeal, or will they back off a bit?

My mother is acting strange, It's like she expected me to come out a full believer again or something.

One of my steps to atheism was letting my brother-in-law get me to talk to a 'Navigator'. Apparently those are evangelical Presbyterians who belong to a club to train people to be better witnesses, kind of like a sectarian toastmasters.

What I walked away from that experience with was a resolve to stop being so tippy-toe sensitive about saying things Christians might find offensive, given how little consideration the more vocal ones give to not saying things non-Christians might find offensive.

(January 16, 2014 at 3:37 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Suck your mark in first. Stick with the love and heaven and good morals and fabulous miracles. It's just stupid to bring up hell if you haven't convinced them of the other stuff first. Don't tell them about the horrendous torture in store for them if they try to leave the Family...er, backslide from adoring and worshiping Jesus, until it's too late for them to back out. It's just common sense.

This won't work. For one, love and good morals can and do happen without Christianity, oftentimes despite Christianity. Second, trying to "suck [one's] mark" in by mentioning heaven and fabulous miracles will often do more harm than good to your agenda with an atheist. All that does is end any rational debate.

Also, you make a pretty raunchy assumption that the starting point for anyone's spiritual journey is a wonderful relationship with Jesus. It's not.

(January 16, 2014 at 1:51 am)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I hop you reconsider the path atheism leads to. Hell is not a good place to go.

You hop? Is that a requirement of pushing your particular brand of religion or just a personal habit?

Scare tactics - the last resort of the religiously indoctrinated.

They only work on the weak minded or those who are already indoctrinated.

But on the other hand, I hope you've considered the path your particular brand of your religion will take you? After all, there are multiple versions of hell, even within Christianity, and none of them are pleasant (or existant, for that matter)!

(January 16, 2014 at 1:51 am)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I hop you reconsider the path atheism leads to. Hell is not a good place to go.

I hope you reconsider the path Christianity leads to. Jahannam (Muslim hell) is not a good place to go.

See how affective your ridiculous scare tactics are?

You're not afraid of going to the Muslim hell, right? Probably because you don't believe it exists. And you'd be right.

We're not afraid of the Christian hell for the same reasons.

(January 16, 2014 at 4:25 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(January 16, 2014 at 1:51 am)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I hop you reconsider the path atheism leads to. Hell is not a good place to go.

I hope you reconsider the path Christianity leads to. Jahannam (Muslim hell) is not a good place to go.

See how affective your ridiculous scare tactics are?

You're not afraid of going to the Muslim hell, right? Probably because you don't believe it exists. And you'd be right.

We're not afraid of the Christian hell for the same reasons.

beautifully said

(January 15, 2014 at 10:31 pm)Wunsbee Wrote: So I went, I basically wanted to refuse to go but my mother was getting worse and worse and I just agreed. He asked me lots of questions, I answered each one throughly. Explaining why what he was saying and believes is nonsense to me, without being rude. Got lots of things like "be open minded!" "You're on a journey!" "I've had doubts too!" etc. He did manage to shake up my emotions a tad but I hid it, mostly because it made ME look like the bad guy. I was clear about my position and I ended up shaking HIM! He was teary eyed and closed to tears by the time we finished.. hahaha

Sounds like you did very well. I've known people who have buckled in situations similar to this. Stand strong. There's a growing community, here and in the real world, standing behind you.

Kudos to you.

I'm going to have to remember this the next time my grandmother mentions hell. Just say her religion isn't the only one with a hell involved, and she isn't worried about muslim hell, is she?

(January 15, 2014 at 10:31 pm)Wunsbee Wrote: So I went, I basically wanted to refuse to go but my mother was getting worse and worse and I just agreed. He asked me lots of questions, I answered each one throughly. Explaining why what he was saying and believes is nonsense to me, without being rude. Got lots of things like "be open minded!" "You're on a journey!" "I've had doubts too!" etc. He did manage to shake up my emotions a tad but I hid it, mostly because it made ME look like the bad guy. I was clear about my position and I ended up shaking HIM! He was teary eyed and closed to tears by the time we finished.. hahaha

Very nicely done


Next time a Christian gives you that "[you've got to] be open minded!" line, ask him/her how open minded they are about: Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, etc, etc, being true?

(January 16, 2014 at 3:11 pm)Wunsbee Wrote:

(January 16, 2014 at 11:51 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Has she ever met an atheist before? Or do you reckon she thinks you are possessed or something?

She comes from a Catholic bubble, so I don't think she has.

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(January 16, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Chad32 Wrote: "Be open minded"? I'm way ahead of you. Open mindedness is why I'm an atheist, after all.

I'm glad your ordeal went well. I was fortunate enough to have moved out before I announced I was an athest. My parents aren't big into the religion anyway. Mostly just my grandmother. I'm glad your parents aren't so extreme that they'd harm you because of your atheist.

That is a positive, no physical harm done.

If you were my son I would kick your atheist ass out. You will burn in hell if you do not accept Christ into your heart. I hope you have no siblings to corrupt you filthy sinner. You have closed your mind and heart to God I will pray for you.