Wow, Drich. You're doing a great job of upholding your vows from the OP. Good job.

(January 30, 2014 at 2:08 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 30, 2014 at 1:59 am)Drich Wrote: you read the set up, but you didn't read the delivery!

Fight your enemy where she isn't Rase!!!

Your delivery didn't come close either. Explain to me why I was thinking of Derrida. I'll give you a hint. Willard Van Orman Quine.

Got it yet?

Derrida was nothing more than a variable (x) in The greater equation. My goal was to identify the equation and not to solve for (x). The fact that I saw identified and then lead you to tip your hand concerning the "logical trap/the greater equation" was the thought process I correctly identified. (Not nessessarly what you were thinking but how you were thinking) Variables in a person equation can change/are required to change in order for them To maintain their pride. But if one can identify the equation they are trying to use then no matter what variables they plug in one can predict and redirect the out come.

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(January 30, 2014 at 2:09 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: Wow, Drich. You're doing a great job of upholding your vows from the OP. Good job.

I haven't called anyone any names.. What are you talking about?

(January 30, 2014 at 2:18 am)Drich Wrote: Derrida was nothing more than a variable (x) in The greater equation. My goal was to identify the equation and not to solve for (x). The fact that I saw identified and then lead you to tip your hand concerning the "logical trap/the greater equation" was the thought process I correctly identified. (Not nessessarly what you were thinking but how you were thinking)

So now you're claiming you don't know what God thinks, only how he thinks. You're getting closer to claiming you're God all the time.

Of course it was a trap. Identifying that it was a trap doesn't tell you what's inside. You claimed the latter. Not the former. A twelve year old knows it's a trap. If you're claiming the same level of knowledge of God's intentions as you're claiming of mine, then you've sprung the trap despite your best attempts to avoid it. If you have no more knowledge of God's intentions than you had of my intentions, then you know nothing of God's intentions.

I must confess, that you think identifying that it was a trap was the point of the question itself is disappointing. The point lies deeper than that. And you haven't scratched the surface yet.

Identified why it's a trap yet? I'll give you another hint. John Searle's essay, "Minds, Brains, and Programs."

Figured it out yet?

Perhaps I should teach your wife privately. She seems capable of the subtlety you lack.

Why do people even botger arguing with drich? He will never change his mind on anything.

(January 29, 2014 at 2:14 pm)Luckie Wrote: Backwards thinking, against progress of humanity

Luck, seriously. I thought the point of your post was point out my 'sins.' Not crimes against pop culture.

What you lable 'backwards thinking' has no foundation in anything in the bible nor in soceitial law. this is just you and maybe your peers saying I don't like what you said even though there is no reason not to like it.

Because of the sheer volume of everything else i have to address I do not see a need to justify how or why you find the content of this section offensive. In all honestly I do not care. Because bottom line it will boil down to the pride of man gain against the soverneity of God. I am here to repersent God, not your pride in 'humanity.'

Quote:Regular generalizations about all atheists with regards to their beliefs, leadingme to believe you have already supposed a reason for someones' non belief before you even met them which is intellectually dishonest.

All reasons can be placed into one of two headings. 1) the person does not want anything to do with the God of the bible as their primary reason, and has chose to seperate themselves from Him. 2) the person wants nothing to do with Christianity as their primary reason, and have netural feelings about God.

The first rarly if ever discusses theology as it is discussed here. Unless they are just full of venom and anger. The second I believe we 'send into the desert.' Or rather given the gift of atheism/a chance to rebuild their faith, if they were only to A/S/ and continue to Knock.

Quote:

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for example:



I'm not aware that they are, no. Christians, on the other hand, have well documented history working against them. Nice roll
on the floor though, very.. um.. what's the word?

Oh yeah, Prideful


:face-palm:

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Without context you do know that whole mess you quoted is absolutly meaningless.
Or was that your intended purpose. Take away meaning and assign any meaning you want like calling my words 'prideful.'

Quote:

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Prideful/Arrogant Behaviour or beliefs in the name of your god
[hide]

Arrogance/Nonpologies


<<<luckie wrote:[next breath]>>>



(I don't think you adequately explained this away, bud)

You are a theist here in an atheist forum, telling us we're going to [your god's] hell, and when we tell you off, you still justify reciprocation as a mode of operation befitting a godly man.

Oh, my goodness.. was that a question?
Are you asking me why i don't act and respond like the sterotype you are use to dealing with?

I guess there are a few reasons and a scriptural justification.

1) I am being truthful to who i am. I am not a priest, I have taken no vows to any form of evangelism, and I am not one to repeat a process over and over and over and over and over again if it is proven not to work.
Comming here with the tactics of the typical christian evangelist is one who carpet bombs with pages and pages of scripture supplimented with endless commentary. (A favorite tactic of hard core muslims as well) My buddy 'Saved by grace' was one of these people.

This does not work. It gets you bann from forums all over the internet no matter what you believe. The option? Address people directly. answer their questions and hold on to the truth. do not compromise what you believe for the sake of popularity. This offends people who do not believe as you do. So what is their response? to offend back. Here there are basically 3 options I have to me; ignore it, or address it off the cuff, or address it in a fashion as to try and direct the conversation to your ultimate goal, (to push back, but not to try and push down as with option 2, and try and refocous on the topic..)

The results of the three responses? If one simply ignores it, then it becomes a free for all (Again see how 'Saved by grace' was targeted) and as a direct result the conversation then becomes a point of who can get the christian to react to a great insult.
So obviously this does not work in THIS form of communication.

To address it off the cuff is to invite a dog pile of insults where all atheists just open fire on the one who opposes them.. This is suicide.

The third option walks a fine line between option two and sucess. I know i have failed to walk this line on many occasions but even if i can sucessfully do this 5 times out of 10, My sucess rate is 5x's greater than it would be in the other 2 potential responses i have avaiable to me.

Not to mention I do have scriptural support for this method of teaching.
1cor 9:
19 I am free. I belong to no other person, but I make myself a slave to everyone. I do this to help save as many people as I can. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew so that I could help save Jews. I myself am not ruled by the law, but to those who are ruled by the law I became like someone who is ruled by the law. I did this to help save those who are ruled by the law. 21 To those who are without the law I became like someone who is without the law. I did this to help save those who are without the law. (But really, I am not without God’s law—I am ruled by the law of Christ.) 22 To those who are weak, I became weak so that I could help save them. I have become all things to all people. I did this so that I could save people in any way possible. 23 I do all this to make the Good News known. I do it so that I can share in the blessings of the Good News.

Quote:Ooh! Fly me! Then show me your proof. Oh wait you can't, and you expect me to take your word for it that you did something right and what I did in my A/S/King was wrong.

I am not to that point yet, but we are still moving in that direction. If you want to go in or a round maybe a years time, then we will see then.

The difference between my A-s-k and yours is the Knocking. Meaning I am still knocking and you have appearently stopped.
That constitutes as a difference whether your willing to admit it or not.

Quote:Don't worry, I can't fly anyways. Too sick.

I could pray for you to get better or I could pray that God uses this sickness to reveal Himself to you, so you know He is indeed real.

Quote: Apparently even with the threat of death to motivate me to A/S/K sincerely, and whole heartedly, and with every fiber of my being for 20 some odd years, I just wasn't righteous enough in how I did things to get what it is you have!

Did you ever consider apart of your 'A/S/King' has to do with this time you spend as an atheist?

Are you familiar with the parable of the wise and foolish builders? here is a sunday school song about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq4bzE-ZCAA

The house we all build is our relationship with God or faith, religious works/expressions. The rains come in many forms. Attacks on your health, wealth, faith and beliefs. If your relationship is built on religion and religious beliefs then that is the same as building your house on the sand. When the rains come all that you built will go Splat! Just like the foolish man in the song/parable. This going splat in the real world translates into Atheism in this day and age. So the question then becomes why does God allow this to happen?

I would say God not only allows this to happen but pushes your house down, per a prayer that you prayed to get closer to him. whether you like it or can admit it or not, your faith was built on sand. How do I know this?
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20756.html In your OP you have admitted to not recognising God or rather what i said as being repersentive of the God of the bible. You even doubt 'my Christianity.' Persumably because it did not look like anything you had ever seen or heard before. Meaning your 'faith/religion' put you in a position to not recognise biblical christianity when it was presented. Meaning you did not know the God of the bible. If you ever prayed to know God better or for a sign or for anything other than maintaining your status quoe, God had to tear down your house to help you build a new one...

This is where Knocking comes in.. Asking/Seeking puts you in the desert (Atheism where you are now) Knocking brings you back out and into a house/faith built on Christ thus answering your prayer.

You earnestly Asked and sought, to that I have no doubt. I have no doubt the vast majority of the people here did the same thing. God was Faithful and answered your prayer. However you were not. To be faithful to what God gave you, you had to continue to ask and seek. It is through this asking and seeking that you knock.

Quote:You want me to take your word for it that it works based on your experience, when in my experience it didn't work and you dismiss me with all the other 'atheists'. Despite the fact that you can't possibly know if I A/S/Kd correctly or not.

again if your not currently knocking I KNOW you did not follow the directions found in Luke 11. meaning you did not A/S/K correctly.

Quote:I'm not a title, I'm a person.

Who acts and responds in accordance with your title. If you didn't you would be known through a different title.

Quote:You seem to forget that sometimes..

If I did not see the people behind those titles, you can be sure I would not be here.

Quote:The first time we met, actually. You threw me around like I'd been through a rumble before, anticipating moves I'd never make and treating me like scum by misrepresenting what I said again and again. It was dishonest. You were, my first forum conversation in my life.

I have a dog juno. She does not like to play rough. She wants to be pet and loved a certain way. When I come home the other two male dogs great me wine and jump till I chase them around and p-eat them. (Pet/beat) Juno does not like to be p-eat-ed. so she will stay off to the side most of the time, and i leave her alone. if she comes to me off to the side i will pet her like she likes. but every now and then she will be in the pack with the other two jumping and barking. when she is she gets pet.

Know I am not calling you a dog, but pointing to behavior (mine.) I respect you all enough to not chase you down and Pet/Beat you over the head with my beliefs. Nor do i chase after you and beat you down once you withdraw from the conversation even if i had not made my final points. However if you come after me (Like my two male dogs) expect to be Peat. that said if you come to me on the side (as you did) I will approach you completely differently. If I remember correctly we had several emails that went differently than it would have if it were in an open forum.

will have to get to the rest later.

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(January 30, 2014 at 2:28 am)rasetsu Wrote:

(January 30, 2014 at 2:18 am)Drich Wrote: Derrida was nothing more than a variable (x) in The greater equation. My goal was to identify the equation and not to solve for (x). The fact that I saw identified and then lead you to tip your hand concerning the "logical trap/the greater equation" was the thought process I correctly identified. (Not nessessarly what you were thinking but how you were thinking)

So now you're claiming you don't know what God thinks, only how he thinks. You're getting closer to claiming you're God all the time.

Of course it was a trap. Identifying that it was a trap doesn't tell you what's inside. You claimed the latter. Not the former. A twelve year old knows it's a trap. If you're claiming the same level of knowledge of God's intentions as you're claiming of mine, then you've sprung the trap despite your best attempts to avoid it. If you have no more knowledge of God's intentions than you had of my intentions, then you know nothing of God's intentions.

I must confess, that you think identifying that it was a trap was the point of the question itself is disappointing. The point lies deeper than that. And you haven't scratched the surface yet.

Identified why it's a trap yet? I'll give you another hint. John Searle's essay, "Minds, Brains, and Programs."

Figured it out yet?

Perhaps I should teach your wife privately. She seems capable of the subtlety you lack.

look I'm not into 'petty' as most of you believe (I was more of a Earnheart fan) If your looking for a win I conceed the point. Because honestly I don't care about what is being discussed here.

As far as trying to 'teach my wife..' If you think your message has any sway your welcome to try.

(January 30, 2014 at 4:34 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Why do people even botger arguing with drich? He will never change his mind on anything.

It's fun to shit on him and his god.

As I have pointed out, and you have ignored, before, the whole premise of A/S/K assumes that atheism is a deliberate choice not to believe in God. It doesn't seem to register with you that our viewpoints developed from our experiences and weren't something that we just one day decided to make and adopt. We can't flip a switch and just believe.

It's also textbook confirmation bias as has been pointed out to you a thousand times.

For those reasons combined, A/S/K is a completely useless method of finding evidence of God for anybody who starts out with no reason to expect an answer. By the methodology you've described over and over and over, you have to have belief ahead of time for it to work, so how can it possibly produce the intended result for someone who doesn't start out with belief?

(January 30, 2014 at 12:53 pm)Drich Wrote: look I'm not into 'petty' as most of you believe (I was more of a Earnheart fan) If your looking for a win I conceed the point. Because honestly I don't care about what is being discussed here.

The point was that you don't know well enough what's in the mind of God to know what he meant specifically by the Tyre prophecy. If you're conceding the point, you're conceding there is no defense of the Tyre prophecy along the lines you drew and therefore it is in fact failed prophecy.

I'm glad you concede that you follow a false god, but it's rather apparent the only reason you concede is because you can't keep up with a simple point.

Do you understand why your defense of the Tyre prophecy doesn't work now? Have you got it yet?


And this applies to your whole ministry. Do you really not care that everything you've argued is indefensible? I doubt that.

(January 30, 2014 at 1:07 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: As I have pointed out, and you have ignored, before, the whole premise of A/S/K assumes that atheism is a deliberate choice not to believe in God. It doesn't seem to register with you that our viewpoints developed from our experiences and weren't something that we just one day decided to make and adopt. We can't flip a switch and just believe.

and you can not except that you don't have to 'just believe.' I have said over and over that all it takes is the faith of a mustard seed meaning all you need is to have enough faith to ask God for help in this area.

Quote:It's also textbook confirmation bias as has been pointed out to you a thousand times.

You can put whatever name you like on it, but the fact of the matter your life will begin to change independantly from any influences that you may have on it. all of which point to God.

Quote:For those reasons combined, A/S/K is a completely useless method of finding evidence of God for anybody who starts out with no reason to expect an answer.

Actually A/S/K is the only method we have of obtaining a measure of the Holy Spirit. I believe once one has and is faithful to the measure of the Holy Spirit he is given, the H/S will provide all the interaction and 'proof' any of us could ever truly need.

Quote: By the methodology you've described over and over and over, you have to have belief ahead of time for it to work, so how can it possibly produce the intended result for someone who doesn't start out with belief?

Again All someone need do who does not already believe is to simply ask and keep asking for what is needed to A/S/K. When you do this know God is not going to send you an angel to sprinkle faith dust on your head while you sleep. Your life will most likly change in some way, that will place you in a position where your only way out is through devine help. Or that you will be bombarded so harshly by life that you will want mercy/help again.

The harder your heart the more dramatic recovery your going to have to make inorder for you to truly credit God with getting you out of a hole.

You may not at first, but you will note over time your trials lasting as long as they need to, inorder for you to finally go to God. at some point you will give up before they begin and there will be a direct correlation between a trial, faith and resolution. this is what I mean to remain faithful. If you can be faithful to this process or whatever process God may use on you (you may get the carrot, I got the stick. Meaning God may bless you rather than have you endure hardship.) then you will begin to see enough to want to know more which will lead into earnest Asking and seeking.. At which point your only end is to keep this up till you find what you have been asking and seeking about.

Side note: Do not try and hold out for the carrot. Also know that whatever God offers don't run from it. See it through. turn into the hardship and face it. In 6 weeks of Hardship I grew more spiritually than I had in the 20 some odd years upto that point. Because i did not run from it I turned into the pain and asked whatever God there may have been to see me through this to use this and open my eyes ears and heart. Show me, Teach me and tell me your truth and not what others think. If you can do this honestly, then you better hang onto something because your life will be turned upside down. (how do I know this? because your life is leading you away if not keeping you away from God, and change will happen one way or another.)

If and when you think you cant take anymore keep this prayer in the back of your mind.

"God, mercy." I based that one off the end of braveheart where wallace is being sliced open and gutted and all he had to do is ask for mercy for the pain to stop. When you feel like your being gutted just ask for mercy.

There was a very dark few days where everything was falling apart, business, wife, family all of it was falling part. I am not a pray on your knees type of person, but there was a phone call or something that just broke me/my will to want to do any of this any more and I just had the brave heart scene flash through my mind, and in stead of asking long shanks for mercy i went to my knees not as a gesture, but because i was so broken I could not stand anymore, and I asked God for mercy and kept asking for it, over and over. then i was filled with peace, almost a reassureance that it will all be ok at this point. it wasn't long after I took the pic of the sunflower/my avatar. After which the worry stopped. when things get close I simply ask God for guidance on what He wants done. then when a biblically sound oppertunity comes up I follow it.

One thing leads to another and one thing is built on another. If your not faithful during this process you will get to a point and will not be able to progress any further.

I can literally ask for something or direction at this point and i will listen to the radio and hear a sermon preached on the VERY thing I was asking about. One of the most profound examples of this was a preacher/ministry was teaching apart of a long series in the OT, and that day i asked God a question and the message that was aired directly spoke to my problem. It has nothing to do with the series they were on, and the next day they said the message was mislabled.. I know what a coincidence is. coincidence is a one or two time thing. i get 5 to 10 of these things aday.

I have built a very sucessful business on these 'coincidences.' want to know the secered to building a business like this for yourself? Put your faith in God, be faithful to the oppertunities He has given you and spend the first 4 to 6 hours of each day answering questions on AF.org I spend about 2/3's of my work day working for God here and on other forums. 1/3 of my time is dedicated to the running a business. i found the harder i work for God the easier my/His business works. The more I sell the harder i work the faster we run out of money and we struggle. i don't tell you this to brag, but to show you how God maintains my level of belief. I get assureances all day everyday. why? Because I have a small level of faith. I need constant reminders and at a boys from Him to keep going. He knows thisand gives me what I need.

I tell you all to A/S/K. Your Asking for the Holy Spirit. If/When you Get the Holy Spirit He will do exactly what needs to happen to establish your faith, and maintain it. If you simply remain faithful to what you have been given.

Wow. I hafta say, rasetsu vs. drich is not a fair fight.