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**Tiberius** · February 5, 2014 at 4:25 pm

I'm only 15 minutes into the debate and already I think Ken Ham's use of other people (via videos) is poor form. There is absolutely no need to do it. If Ham wanted to name scientists who are creationists, he could have just done so (like the way he originally named the guy who invented the MRI).

I mean, if this was an agreed format by both people, then fair enough, but in my opinion when you go to see a debate between two people, you expect only those two people to be doing the talking.

Chad32 · February 5, 2014 at 4:41 pm

Asking questions is good, but some of these are really simple answers that any adult should know. Why would you even ask why the sun sets? Shouldn't you have learned that in grade school?

Science is not a theory. It's a method. Plus the reason theory is the highest form of knowledge is because our knowledge changes over time. If you say something is an indisputable fact, like lighting coming from the hand of Zeus, you'd eventually be proven wrong. if you say something is where all the evidence points, then it's going to be that way until you find other evidence and test it against the rest. It's like arguing about which god from which holy book created the universe. First you have to prove gods exist.

I can look at the world, and what I see is only evidence for what I see. Trees are evidence of trees. Not gods.

We didn't come from modern monkeys or apes. Modern animals evolved from animals in the past. Some at different rates. This includes gorillas, humans, and spider monkeys.

**Minimalist** · February 5, 2014 at 4:44 pm

(February 5, 2014 at 4:20 pm)rasetsu Wrote:
(February 5, 2014 at 4:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: This makes me sad, and frustrated:

22 Messages from creationists to people who believe in evolution

Having questions is never a mistake, even these.

No. Those are typical of jesus-freak stupidity on a level which is shocking in the 21st century. It is hard to fathom that some people can be that fucking dumb.

My imaginary friend is GOD · February 5, 2014 at 4:45 pm

(February 5, 2014 at 4:20 pm)rasetsu Wrote:
(February 5, 2014 at 4:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: This makes me sad, and frustrated:

22 Messages from creationists to people who believe in evolution

Having questions is never a mistake, even these.

Despite what your teachers told you, there are in fact stupid questions.

The last one is so stupid it kinda cracks me up.
[Image: Bro+Do+You+Even+Science_.png]

Angrboda · February 5, 2014 at 4:45 pm

(February 5, 2014 at 4:41 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Asking questions is good, but some of these are really simple answers that any adult should know. Why would you even ask why the sun sets? Shouldn't you have learned that in grade school?

The simple will always trump the complex, for some people. But for others, the question is the first step on the real road to true knowledge.

**DeistPaladin** · (This post was last modified: February 5, 2014 at 5:29 pm by DeistPaladin.)

(February 5, 2014 at 4:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: This makes me sad, and frustrated:

22 Messages from creationists to people who believe in evolution

OK, just because I feel the compulsion to imagine the answers...

DISCLAIMER: My education in biology consists of what I learned in high school and still none of these questions were hard to answer.

1. Yes, teaching science and critical thinking is influencing children in a positive way.

2. No, I'm not scared of a divine creator.

3. Kinda makes your god into a trickster, doesn't it, deceptively making us think the universe is older than it is? If so, how can you trust your god's salvation message if you can't even trust your god's creation?

4. No. The sun takes care of that. The world is not a "closed system", since the sun provides new energy.

5. Um, the earth spins on its axis and the sun's "rise" and "set" is an optical illusion. OK, too fast. You see, the earth is actually round...

6. Thermodynamics again? They don't. See #4.

7. That's philosophy, not biology. We'll get back to you when we understand consciousness but, until then, filling in the blanks with "it's magic" or GodDidIt isn't helpful to the search.

8. What does "objective meaning" actually mean? Can I plug numbers into a spread sheet that measure meaning? Are there units of measure to determine meaning? If you're talking about philosophical values, they must almost by definition be subjective.

9. That's abiogenesis, not evolution, and we're working on that. Just because we don't yet know doesn't mean you can fill in the blanks with GodDidIt. It's an argument from ignorance to do so and it stops the search.

10. OK.

11. Stop getting your science education from Ben Stein. That quote from Dawkins about aliens planting life was a quote mine deceptively wrenched out of context. Take a remedial biology class and get back to me.

12. Actually, we've found plenty of transitional fossils.

13. "Metamorphosis"? Do you mean mutation? Gradual mutations are what drive the change in life over time, which is what the science of evolution studies.

14. Germ theory is "just a theory". Atomic theory is "just a theory". Gravitational theory is "just a theory". You can see the word "theory" means something different to science than it does to you.

15. Um, no, theories ARE testable, observable and repeatable. That how they pass the process of peer review and get to be called "theories". Otherwise, they wouldn't be called "theories", at least not in science.

16. "Information"? No, these are mutations that gradually change over time. This is how dogs were bred from wolves or we breed horses to run faster. These are examples are artificial selection, where humans direct the process, but natural selection works the same way except it takes longer.

17. Why is "salvation" necessary to feel a sense of purpose?

18. Because fossils are rare. They're rare because normally living things decompose and turn to dust. Something has to stop that process and neatly encase the corpse in order to preserve remains that can be found hundreds of thousands of years later.

19. Yes. Faith is belief without reason and against all reason. The Big Bang has evidence. Science is not faith. Science is not religion. Science is not a belief. Science is not a god.

20. Yes, the world is amazing. And...?

21. Did you watch the debate. I already told you we don't know what was before the "Big Bang". That's called starting with what we know and looking for the answers to what we don't know, as opposed to creationism which is starting with the answers and looking for reasons to believe it.

22. How about this: "If we bred dogs from wolves, why are there still wolves?" If you can answer that, you can answer your own question.

Seriously. High school education. That's all I had in biology.

ThePinsir · February 5, 2014 at 5:47 pm

I was watching it on a library computer. If he would've called Nye's arguments "religion" ONE more time I would've punched a hole through the screen!

pocaracas · February 5, 2014 at 6:48 pm

Oh, UH! can I answer those too?! Big Grin

This is big, so I hide it for you people who don't want to scroll too much! Smile

Oh, man... I feel like some brain cells have died while answering this... I fully understand why thunderf00t started his "why do people laugh at creationists" series... Oh, boy... so much lack of education!

**DeistPaladin** · February 5, 2014 at 9:23 pm

(February 5, 2014 at 6:48 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Oh, man... I feel like some brain cells have died while answering this... I fully understand why thunderf00t started his "why do people laugh at creationists" series... Oh, boy... so much lack of education!

I feel the same way. That's why I emphasized I have only the most basic high school education in biology and other sciences. Even in America, this information is readily available. Where were these people?

**Minimalist** · February 5, 2014 at 9:31 pm

Quote: Where were these people?

Reading the fucking bible.

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