BILL NYE VS KEN HAM: TONIGHT AT 7 PM

[Tiberius]

I'm only 15 minutes into the debate and already I think Ken Ham's use of other people (via videos) is poor form. There is absolutely no need to do it. If Ham wanted to name scientists who are creationists, he could have just done so (like the way he originally named the guy who invented the MRI).

I mean, if this was an agreed format by both people, then fair enough, but in my opinion when you go to see a debate between two people, you expect only those two people to be doing the talking.

[Chad32]

Asking questions is good, but some of these are really simple answers that any adult should know. Why would you even ask why the sun sets? Shouldn't you have learned that in grade school?

Science is not a theory. It's a method. Plus the reason theory is the highest form of knowledge is because our knowledge changes over time. If you say something is an indisputable fact, like lighting coming from the hand of Zeus, you'd eventually be proven wrong. if you say something is where all the evidence points, then it's going to be that way until you find other evidence and test it against the rest. It's like arguing about which god from which holy book created the universe. First you have to prove gods exist.

I can look at the world, and what I see is only evidence for what I see. Trees are evidence of trees. Not gods.

We didn't come from modern monkeys or apes. Modern animals evolved from animals in the past. Some at different rates. This includes gorillas, humans, and spider monkeys.

[Minimalist]

This makes me sad, and frustrated:

22 Messages from creationists to people who believe in evolution

Having questions is never a mistake, even these.

No. Those are typical of jesus-freak stupidity on a level which is shocking in the 21st century. It is hard to fathom that some people can be that fucking dumb.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

This makes me sad, and frustrated:

22 Messages from creationists to people who believe in evolution

Having questions is never a mistake, even these.

Despite what your teachers told you, there are in fact stupid questions.

The last one is so stupid it kinda cracks me up.

[Angrboda]

Asking questions is good, but some of these are really simple answers that any adult should know. Why would you even ask why the sun sets? Shouldn't you have learned that in grade school?

The simple will always trump the complex, for some people. But for others, the question is the first step on the real road to true knowledge.

[DeistPaladin]

This makes me sad, and frustrated:

22 Messages from creationists to people who believe in evolution

OK, just because I feel the compulsion to imagine the answers...

DISCLAIMER: My education in biology consists of what I learned in high school and still none of these questions were hard to answer.

1. Yes, teaching science and critical thinking is influencing children in a positive way.

2. No, I'm not scared of a divine creator.

3. Kinda makes your god into a trickster, doesn't it, deceptively making us think the universe is older than it is? If so, how can you trust your god's salvation message if you can't even trust your god's creation?

4. No. The sun takes care of that. The world is not a "closed system", since the sun provides new energy.

5. Um, the earth spins on its axis and the sun's "rise" and "set" is an optical illusion. OK, too fast. You see, the earth is actually round...

6. Thermodynamics again? They don't. See #4.

7. That's philosophy, not biology. We'll get back to you when we understand consciousness but, until then, filling in the blanks with "it's magic" or GodDidIt isn't helpful to the search.

8. What does "objective meaning" actually mean? Can I plug numbers into a spread sheet that measure meaning? Are there units of measure to determine meaning? If you're talking about philosophical values, they must almost by definition be subjective.

9. That's abiogenesis, not evolution, and we're working on that. Just because we don't yet know doesn't mean you can fill in the blanks with GodDidIt. It's an argument from ignorance to do so and it stops the search.

10. OK.

11. Stop getting your science education from Ben Stein. That quote from Dawkins about aliens planting life was a quote mine deceptively wrenched out of context. Take a remedial biology class and get back to me.

12. Actually, we've found plenty of transitional fossils.

13. "Metamorphosis"? Do you mean mutation? Gradual mutations are what drive the change in life over time, which is what the science of evolution studies.

14. Germ theory is "just a theory". Atomic theory is "just a theory". Gravitational theory is "just a theory". You can see the word "theory" means something different to science than it does to you.

15. Um, no, theories ARE testable, observable and repeatable. That how they pass the process of peer review and get to be called "theories". Otherwise, they wouldn't be called "theories", at least not in science.

16. "Information"? No, these are mutations that gradually change over time. This is how dogs were bred from wolves or we breed horses to run faster. These are examples are artificial selection, where humans direct the process, but natural selection works the same way except it takes longer.

17. Why is "salvation" necessary to feel a sense of purpose?

18. Because fossils are rare. They're rare because normally living things decompose and turn to dust. Something has to stop that process and neatly encase the corpse in order to preserve remains that can be found hundreds of thousands of years later.

19. Yes. Faith is belief without reason and against all reason. The Big Bang has evidence. Science is not faith. Science is not religion. Science is not a belief. Science is not a god.

20. Yes, the world is amazing. And...?

21. Did you watch the debate. I already told you we don't know what was before the "Big Bang". That's called starting with what we know and looking for the answers to what we don't know, as opposed to creationism which is starting with the answers and looking for reasons to believe it.

22. How about this: "If we bred dogs from wolves, why are there still wolves?" If you can answer that, you can answer your own question.

Seriously. High school education. That's all I had in biology.

[ThePinsir]

I was watching it on a library computer. If he would've called Nye's arguments "religion" ONE more time I would've punched a hole through the screen!

[pocaracas]

Oh, UH! can I answer those too?!

This is big, so I hide it for you people who don't want to scroll too much!

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1. Bill Nye, Are you influencing the minds of children in a positive way?

Yes, he is. He's teaching children some of the most important results that science has provided to humanity. Some may still be rough guesses, but they're educated guesses, supported by evidence. Most are as much a fact as my heart is beating.

2. Are you scared of a divine creator?

PFFFFFF LOL why should I be?!
If it wants me to know that it's there, then it better call or something... this relying on ancient people's writings is such a stupid way of going about that business...

3. Is it completely illogical that the earth was created mature?
i.e. tree created with rings...
Adam created as an adult...

Logic works in star wars, in Dr Who, in CSI... Sure it's logical... if you think that such a creator would want you to think those things were that old right off the bat... now why would a creator want that? Wouldn't it be easier to create a tree without rings, one that added the rings every season after creation... that would leave us very baffled, and leaning much more towards the creator hypothesis.

4. Does not the second law of thermodynamics disprove Evolution?

This one was addressed in the debate...
If you're asking this question, you don't know the second law of thermodynamics, so it's better to instruct you...
Here it is, in a very concise form: In a closed system, the entropy of that system can not decrease.
What is a closed system? One that does not exchange energy with anything else.
What is entropy? It's a measure of the level of disorder of the system's microscopic constituents.

So, why would evolution be disproved by this law?
Because, if you assume the biosphere as a closed system (which it most certainly is not!), then you sort of observe multi-cellular life forms arising from single-celled life forms... eventually, these multi-cellular organisms even interact, forming societies where the work collectively.
But, of course, the Earth's biosphere is not a closed system. It gets energy from elsewhere... mostly, the Sun. The positive entropy of the Sun is more than enough to offset any negative entropy that may come by from the effect of evolution.

5. How do you explain a sunset if their is no god?

First... it's "there is", not "their is"... Back to school with you... but, this time, try a real school.
The Earth rotates around its North-South axis. As it does that, one side is exposed to the Sun, while the other isn't. The sunset is seen when you're on one location of the surface of the Earth which is moving away from the Sun.

6. If the Big Bang theory is true and taught as science along with evolution, why do the laws of thermodynamics debunk said theories?

As seen in 4., evolution is not debunked by the second law of thermodynamics.
As for the big bang, it is the initial condition, before that, scientists call it a singularity... the Laws of physics as we know them break down there... including the laws of thermodynamics.

7. what about noetics?

Where do these people come up with these names? I had to google noetics: "In philosophy, noetics is a branch of metaphysical philosophy concerned with the study of mind and intellect. [...] More recently the term "noetics" has been employed by several authors who write about consciousness, spirituality and cosmology."
Ah... the problem of consciousness... What about the the problem where certain chemicals change (temporarily or permanently) one's consciousness? What about the problem where certain physical traumas cause change (usually permanent) to one's consciousness?
Actual testable, physical observations seem to support the fact that consciousness depends heavily on brain function... perhaps it's nothing more that an arising property of an extremely complex neural network, wouldn't it seem?

8. Where do you derive objective meaning in life?

Loaded question is Loaded!
How do you make an omelet of unbroken eggs?
Where? No where! Is there such a thing as "objective meaning in life"?

9. if god did not create everything, how did the first single-celled organism originate? by chance?

By a fortuitous chain of events... relying heavily on availability of certain elements and the right conditions for them to come close.
How exactly did that happen? we're still struggling to find out a mechanism that can bring about an organism.. until then, why assume there's some magic-man doing it? It didn't work out very well for Thor, nor Ra... God of the gaps, anyone?

10. I believe in the Big Bang Theory... God said it and BANG it happened!!

If you're happy in your non-answer to the problem, then so be it... but, please, don't let that get out of your mouth.

11. why do evolutionists/secularists/humanists/non-god believing people reject the idea of their being a creator god but embrace the concept of intelligent design from aliens or other extra-terrestrial sources?

Another one who needs to go back to school... It's "there", not "their"...and I'm not a native english speaker!
And you are certainly a very delusional person if you actually think anyone but scientologists embrace that notion. And, last I checked, scientology was some sort of religion.

12. There is no inbetween.... the only one found has been Lucy and there are only a few pieces of the hundreds necessary for an "official proof"

Sure... lady, have you ever been to a museum?

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13. Does metamorphosis help support evolution?

I don't even know why this is here... it seems the evolution of metamorphosis is somewhat mysterious... or was: http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...evolution/.

14. if evolution is a theory (like creationism of the bible) why then is evolution taught as fact?

Because it has supporting evidence, under the form of millions of fossils discovered and cataloged.
Because it has predictive capabilities, under the form of predicting the existence of more developed creatures in rock strata that is younger than those where less developed creatures are found.
Creationism and the bible have none! They're not even theories... they're, at best, hypothesis.
I think you better get back to school and learn what a theory is, before you make a fool of yourself even more.

15. Because science by definition is a "theory" - not testable, observable, notr repeatable why do you object to creationism or intelligent design being taught in school?

Because creationism is not a theory! See 14.
And science is not a theory. Science has theories about the real world around us.

16. What mechanism has science discovered that evidences an increase of genetic information seen in any genetic mutation or evolutionary process?

Yeah... none... you see... the simple amoeba has a greater genome that a human http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/article...omes.shtml).
Why is that?
It seems most of our genes are left overs from virus attacks in the far past... amoebas have been around for quite a while and have managed to accumulate even more.
So, don't make the mistake of confusing amount of genetic information with actual genetic blueprint for the organism in question.

17. What purpose do you think you are here for if you do not believe in salvation?

I am here to provide my parents with grandchildren... they want them.
Hopefully, my children will then understand that I want grandchildren as well.
This is what it boils down to... keep the species going. Also, enjoy life, it's the only one you get.

18. Why have we found only 1 "Lucy", when we have found more than 1 of everything else?

Pfff, LOL!!! "We have found more than 1 of everything else"??? not by a long shot! We haven't found 1 of many species... and there may not be any fossils out there for those.
Also, fossilization under savannah conditions is kind of unlikely. So Lucy was a blow of luck. Enjoy it.

19. Can you believe in "the big bang" without "faith"?

The big bang is a notion that arises from empirical observation of the galaxies. They are seen to be moving away from us... away from each other... the Universe is expanding, in every direction, of the 3-dimensional space.
Just dial back the clock on this expansion and you find that the Universe must have, at some point in the past, been in one single place... one single point of space. And then, bang it goes...
It is an extrapolation of the observed Universe... consistent with the observed distance of the most distant galaxies observable.
It is then a reasonable explanation, based on the evidence available.
I see no faith being required...

20. How can you look at the world and not believe someone created/thought of it? It's amazing!!!

O.M.G.!!! You're so, like, abso-fuckin'-lutely right!!!
It IS amazing!
It is also HUGE!
How can you think that someone could have thought about it all?
Anyway, I see no reason to think that someone thought about it, nor that someone created it... It all can arise from natural physical processes.

21. Relating to the big bang theory... Where did the exploding star come from?

What?! just... no.... go back to school, not that school, a proper school.
Exploding star? the big bang?
There's so much wrong here, I just can't...

22. If we come from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?

This is another guy that needs to go back to school. Why are there so many dropouts on this list?
Monkeys evolved in a different habitat from humans. For their habitat, the adaptations they required were minor, compared with humans.

Why not ask something cool like: If windows 8 is out, how come there are still computers with windows 98?

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Oh, man... I feel like some brain cells have died while answering this... I fully understand why thunderf00t started his "why do people laugh at creationists" series... Oh, boy... so much lack of education!

[DeistPaladin]

Oh, man... I feel like some brain cells have died while answering this... I fully understand why thunderf00t started his "why do people laugh at creationists" series... Oh, boy... so much lack of education!

I feel the same way. That's why I emphasized I have only the most basic high school education in biology and other sciences. Even in America, this information is readily available. Where were these people?

[Minimalist]

Where were these people?

Reading the fucking bible.