There are a number of bible verses that speak of the "foundations" of the earth. A few others suggest that the sun orbits the earth. Does this mean that the bible's authors thought the world was flat and the universe geocentric? Or does foundation here have some other meaning?

If it does imply that the earth is flat...it should pretty much settle any religious argument. Ever.

See:

Psalm 105: 5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
[note: this verse has both, an earth with a foundation and a non-moving planet]

Job 38:4
Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Isaiah 48:13
Yea, my hand hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spread out the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
(the sun doesn't "hurry back" anywhere. the earth rotates on its axis)

Well, Christians??

Surely a supreme being can do better than this

(February 14, 2014 at 6:35 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: There are a number of bible verses that speak of the "foundations" of the earth. A few others suggest that the sun orbits the earth. Does this mean that the bible's authors thought the world was flat and the universe geocentric? Or does foundation here have some other meaning?

If it does imply that the earth is flat...it should pretty much settle any religious argument. Ever.

See:

Psalm 105: 5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
[note: this verse has both, an earth with a foundation and a non-moving planet]

Job 38:4
Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Isaiah 48:13
Yea, my hand hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spread out the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
(the sun doesn't "hurry back" anywhere. the earth rotates on its axis)

Well, Christians??

Surely a supreme being can do better than this

They will say its poetic crap.. I think its all crap...

(February 14, 2014 at 6:35 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: There are a number of bible verses that speak of the "foundations" of the earth. A few others suggest that the sun orbits the earth. Does this mean that the bible's authors thought the world was flat and the universe geocentric? Or does foundation here have some other meaning?

If it does imply that the earth is flat...it should pretty much settle any religious argument. Ever.

See:

Psalm 105: 5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
[note: this verse has both, an earth with a foundation and a non-moving planet]

Job 38:4
Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Isaiah 48:13
Yea, my hand hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spread out the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
(the sun doesn't "hurry back" anywhere. the earth rotates on its axis)

Well, Christians??

Surely a supreme being can do better than this

Even a lot of Young Earth Creationists wont admit that these verses actually say that the Earth is a flat disc at the centre of the universe.

A bunch of gutless cherry pickers

They will say that "circle" (flat round disc) is really "sphere" (round, three-dimensional ball). They will point to "corners" and "foundations" as colloquial terms (we still use phrases like "the ends of the earth" even today). It's a non-starter, IMO. There is certainly enough there to interpret it as claiming that the earth was basically like one of those snow globes, a flat disc with a canopy on which the sky was stretched out. But there is just enough ambiguity for them to insist that it's just figures of speech, and texts like Job 26:7 ("he hangs the earth on nothing") to imply that the ancient writers understood that it floated in space.

I'm not sure how to find it, but there have been maps of earth with a solid firmament and the sun and moon between it and the land. The view of the world was very different back then, and many people at least wouldn't think it was all poetic.

I think there is a bible passage that says it hangs on nothing, though that still isn't really accurate.

(February 14, 2014 at 6:39 pm)truthBtold Wrote:

(February 14, 2014 at 6:35 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: There are a number of bible verses that speak of the "foundations" of the earth. A few others suggest that the sun orbits the earth. Does this mean that the bible's authors thought the world was flat and the universe geocentric? Or does foundation here have some other meaning?

If it does imply that the earth is flat...it should pretty much settle any religious argument. Ever.

See:

Psalm 105: 5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
[note: this verse has both, an earth with a foundation and a non-moving planet]

Job 38:4
Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Isaiah 48:13
Yea, my hand hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spread out the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
(the sun doesn't "hurry back" anywhere. the earth rotates on its axis)

Well, Christians??

Surely a supreme being can do better than this

They will say its poetic crap.. I think its all crap...

You're right. Every single verse quoted here is poetic literature. It's poetic language. You can ridicule all you want, but the bible is not making a statement about a flat earth. How many modern authors have used the term "the four corners of the earth" and many others, like "the sun rose" and "the sun shone it's light"?

Ever use the term sunrise, sunset? You do know the sun does not move across the sky right? Why do we still use these terms? Because from our perspective these things still seem to hold true. How much more true when 'we' did not know any better?

I could make a case for geocentrism. Not a good one but a case none the less. Might have to wait til I get to a though (am on holiday

(February 16, 2014 at 8:25 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 14, 2014 at 6:39 pm)truthBtold Wrote: They will say its poetic crap.. I think its all crap...

You're right. Every single verse quoted here is poetic literature. It's poetic language. You can ridicule all you want, but the bible is not making a statement about a flat earth. How many modern authors have used the term "the four corners of the earth" and many others, like "the sun rose" and "the sun shone it's light"?

So how do you know that this is poetic, but the great flood is literal truth?

(February 16, 2014 at 8:25 pm)Lek Wrote: You're right. Every single verse quoted here is poetic literature. It's poetic language. You can ridicule all you want, but the bible is not making a statement about a flat earth. How many modern authors have used the term "the four corners of the earth" and many others, like "the sun rose" and "the sun shone it's light"?

Ah yes, that great poetic idiom, "it can never be moved," used to mean- in such a poetic way!- "moves constantly and at a speed that would be boggling if we had the capability to feel it." Yes.

Also, can we notice the difference between Lek's "it's all poetry!" stance, and Drich's "We didn't know any better!" stance? One of them's gotta be wrong... Or both...

Oh, and Drich? Didn't god know any better?