I'm no good at coming up with them myself but I'll know one when I see it.

Please no more "how can the bible say xxx and yet Christians believe yyy". Boring.

Likewise no more reiterations of standard Christian apologetics. If you're a xtian and have just stumbled onto a real zinger, trust me, we've seen it before, it's garbage. Spare us.

Maybe something authentic about how/why xtians make the jump from "I feel God's presence" to "ahh, here you go. That must be the God spoken of right here in this bible".

Or, on the other side, what really does it matter if some folks want to go on believing in gods? Is anything of consequence actually at stake? Does anyone really think removing xtian bullshit would do anything other than create a vacuum into which other bullshit would rush?

How about a poll on whether people think the human race is on a trajectory of 'progress'? I don't see it but I wonder how many people think they do.

Perhaps I'm just fresh out of shits to give about religion for or against.

Anybody got something fresh? Little help here.

Quote:Or, on the other side, what really does it matter if some folks want to go on believing in gods?

The fuckers keep annoying the rest of us about their bullshit. If they would quietly go believe in whatever-the-fuck they like it would be no skin off my nose.

(February 28, 2014 at 12:08 pm)whateverist Wrote: Or, on the other side, what really does it matter if some folks want to go on believing in gods? Is anything of consequence actually at stake? Does anyone really think removing xtian bullshit would do anything other than create a vacuum into which other bullshit would rush?

They use it to legislate and discriminate. They try to force it into public school and undermine real science. They use to as an excuse to blow up buildings and bomb brown people.

Yeah, plenty of things of consequence are at stake.

No, there is nothing new to be said about it. I will say the more humans that are taught evolution and also the psychology behind why people believe false things, the better off we will be.

DeistPaladin had suggested a stickied thread with links to the more common topics that we see when some theist joins because he thought he had a killer point to make. I recall that it basically got filibustered into nothingness.

I am more disappointed that once we get past the initial trading of ideas and thoughts, we almost always fall into one of two patterns. Either the theist goes into Preach Mode or into Gaps Mode, or some version thereof. I think it might be all that is left. Being told that, in effect, we cannot possibly ever prove god is an admission of defeat for many of us who spent a very long time trying to find god and reaching that conclusion ourselves. To me, someone who tells me that we can never prove god is just a step away from realizing that they are atheists, too.

(February 28, 2014 at 2:02 pm)Tonus Wrote: To me, someone who tells me that we can never prove god is just a step away from realizing that they are atheists, too.

I don't see Christianity's philosopher-in-chief Alvin Plantinga admitting as much anytime soon, though he's happy to admit that there is no way to prove that his God resides anywhere beyond his fuzzy mental construct.

I think the most important battles happen inside. Forum wide battles matter little to the individual moments in a theist or atheist's life. Though they can serve as stepping stones, the person stepping has to choose which river to cross. I think there's a myth that religious belief is just a wall that, if torn down, brick at a time, will reveal an atheist. I think that may be the path for many. It's also the path for many that they are building their own structures out of the raw material of their lives. For some, this is away from gods. For some, this is away from spooks and pseudoscience. For some, this is towards new gods. And for many, this is towards a deeper love of the god they've already found. It's not a tug of war. It's a race with all people headed different directions. Maybe that's why the finish line is so hard to find.

(March 2, 2014 at 12:50 am)rasetsu Wrote: I think the most important battles happen inside. Forum wide battles matter little to the individual moments in a theist or atheist's life. Though they can serve as stepping stones, the person stepping has to choose which river to cross. I think there's a myth that religious belief is just a wall that, if torn down, brick at a time, will reveal an atheist. I think that may be the path for many. It's also the path for many that they are building their own structures out of the raw material of their lives. For some, this is away from gods. For some, this is away from spooks and pseudoscience. For some, this is towards new gods. And for many, this is towards a deeper love of the god they've already found. It's not a tug of war. It's a race with all people headed different directions. Maybe that's why the finish line is so hard to find.

*hugs*

Thank you. That was refreshing.

(March 2, 2014 at 12:50 am)rasetsu Wrote: I think the most important battles happen inside. Forum wide battles matter little to the individual moments in a theist or atheist's life. Though they can serve as stepping stones, the person stepping has to choose which river to cross. I think there's a myth that religious belief is just a wall that, if torn down, brick at a time, will reveal an atheist. I think that may be the path for many. It's also the path for many that they are building their own structures out of the raw material of their lives. For some, this is away from gods. For some, this is away from spooks and pseudoscience. For some, this is towards new gods. And for many, this is towards a deeper love of the god they've already found. It's not a tug of war. It's a race with all people headed different directions. Maybe that's why the finish line is so hard to find.

Except some directions lead to actual progress while others don't. Example: see middle east.

I feel like I should have something really profound to say, but I've got nothing.