(March 19, 2014 at 9:38 pm)Cinjin Wrote: ... And to think I thought you were going to go deistic Jacob.

<thinking> ... there goes my one and only convert ...

Sorry Bro . One of the very simple axioms which coaxed me over the line is the idea that if you don't understand something it's a bad idea to accept a weak hypothesis with little evidence when one can simply decline to accept any hypothesis at all until more data is available.

If it helps, I did give the desist position a lot of thought as an option.

Welcome back, Jacob.
Enjoy this fine forum.

(March 20, 2014 at 3:18 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Close. I discovered a horribly neat and straightforward explanation for said feelings, which sort of spoiled them for me a bit .

Yeah ... as you said here:

(March 19, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Today's minor epiphany was the concept of sacrificial, agape love as an evolutionary advantage. The warm fluffiness I was enjoying may thus be nothing more than my brain rewarding me for a behaviour which gives my genes benefit, by releasing fun chemicals when I think about it.

But I found it rather hard to believe that this was something new to you because I don't see how that's any different from having a "Meh, maybe it's all in my head" epiphany. They're the same thing except that you just dressed it up with some scientific words like "fun chemicals" ...

And you used to say that religion was a comfort blanket for you, and that you don't even care if it's objectively true or not as long as it makes you "feel good" (i.e. "functional"), but ironically now you're saying the opposite, i.e. that the warm fluffiness has been ruined precisely because of realizing the possibility that it might exist only in your brain and thus not objectively real.

I guess that's just another one of those miraculous flip-flops that you're so good at.

I gave up the ghost at quite a young age, so empathy here is difficult; however, sympathy may be in order. I hope your personal realtionships are such that you don't know any believers that use your belief as a litmus test for friendship.

I've always thought of a self adhesive bandage when faced with ending relationships with irrenconcilable differences. Better to rip it off quickly even though the discomfort is more acute than to prolong suffering by slowly pulling at it.

Yep! Gasp at my miraculous uncertainty. I try not to be too wedded to any ideas or concepts. It makes it harder to modify them when new information comes along. Also reduces the tendency toward confirmation bias.

I guess it's the difference between knowing that these things COULD be nothing more than mere psychology and having a detailed explanation of the psychological and physiological processes involved. In much the same way that my kids are of an age where they suspect I may be santa, but are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt to enjoy the illusion. If however they saw me loading presents into a sock, they'd have a much harder time doing that.

Quote: But I found it rather hard to believe that this was something new to you because I don't see how that's any different from having a "Meh, maybe it's all in my head" epiphany. 

You find it hard to believe?


What you believe is a matter of supreme indifference to me. But for what's worth, I read something, learned something, and changed my views on something. If that is an alien concept to you, I wonder why that is.

Personal favourite

http://youtu.be/HSmld6EE3ek

(March 20, 2014 at 5:38 am)Cato Wrote: I gave up the ghost at quite a young age, so empathy here is difficult; however, sympathy may be in order. I hope your personal realtionships are such that you don't know any believers that use your belief as a litmus test for friendship.

I've always thought of a self adhesive bandage when faced with ending relationships with irrenconcilable differences. Better to rip it off quickly even though the discomfort is more acute than to prolong suffering by slowly pulling at it.

Thank you.

Happily, in england, religious beliefs tend to be something we don't talk about much. Can't see that being a problem.

Well done on coming out, Jacob.

I'm more delighted than surprised. Good for you, Jacob!

(March 20, 2014 at 6:36 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote:

(March 20, 2014 at 5:38 am)Cato Wrote: I gave up the ghost at quite a young age, so empathy here is difficult; however, sympathy may be in order. I hope your personal realtionships are such that you don't know any believers that use your belief as a litmus test for friendship.

I've always thought of a self adhesive bandage when faced with ending relationships with irrenconcilable differences. Better to rip it off quickly even though the discomfort is more acute than to prolong suffering by slowly pulling at it.

Thank you.

Happily, in england, religious beliefs tend to be something we don't talk about much. Can't see that being a problem.

My family (consists of my mother and brother) discuss it whenever we're together!