(April 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(April 8, 2010 at 1:29 pm)Tiberius Wrote: * Tiberius wonders when people will realise socialism is oppressive and inherently unfair.

Making the vast majority of people suffer at the expense of the few doesn't come near to any concept of 'fair'.

I've told you before, your view of capitalism is backwards. Capitalism thrives on people doing work for money; everyone works, and everyone gets richer. It's in socialism where people are paid despite them refusing to do work, and what is the point of doing work if you get paid anyway? Socialism is a self-destructive system that results in capitalism by natural progression.

(April 8, 2010 at 1:29 pm)Tiberius Wrote: *sigh*

* Tiberius wonders when people will realise socialism is oppressive and inherently unfair.

* Dotard wonders when people will realize capitalism is oppressive and inherently predatory. *

---

(April 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Making the vast majority of people suffer at the expense of the few doesn't come near to any concept of 'fair'.

Making the vast majority of people suffer for the continous enrichment of the few doesn't come near to any concept of 'fair' in my book either.

Quote:Who will win?

Whoever gets the most votes?



Of course, here in the US it doesn't always work that way.

(April 8, 2010 at 6:25 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I've told you before, your view of capitalism is backwards.

And we've told you before your view of capitalism is a misrepresentation.

Capitalism thrives on people doing work for a few people to maintain wealth, everyone works, and a few get richer and the rest can take the pittence offered or hit the road.

Quote: It's in socialism where people are paid despite them refusing to do work, and what is the point of doing work if you get paid anyway?

Yeah what is the point of working to get the equivalent of a fat steak dinner when if you don't work you can get the equivalent of a can of beans? Communism might like the idea everyone gets the same, but I believe socialism advocates basic needs like food, clothing, shelter, MEDICAL CARE are provided by the government. If you want more like fatter steaks, nicer clothing, bigger homes, TO BUY YOUR WAY TO THE FRONT OF THE MEDICAL CARE LINE, go to disneyland, vacation in the alps etc. then you work. Work harder and longer for more.

Socialism helps ensure the propagation of our species by ensuring a healthy robust populous.

Capitalism exploits and will let the old, sick and poor rot in the street as long as the elite remain elite. Well, they won't let them rot there, someone will capitalise on that and offer old, sick and poor people removal services.

(April 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(April 8, 2010 at 1:29 pm)Tiberius Wrote: * Tiberius wonders when people will realise socialism is oppressive and inherently unfair.

Making the vast majority of people suffer at the expense of the few doesn't come near to any concept of 'fair'.

It's possible... if the vast majority do absolutely nothing with their lives, and weren't trying to thrive in a world where it takes work (not necessarily their own, but then there are many ways to 'work') to survive

My view of capitalism is a different representation, I'll grant you that. It isn't a misrepresentation though. There is a difference.

Capitalism these days is implemented with a mixture of socialism, a bad move for sure. They put heavy taxes on everything, especially business, and expect businesses to provide jobs. If businesses paid no tax, and there was an active encouragement for new business to start up, you'd have far more jobs being created.

Of course, the government is the real greedy party in modern politics. They want as much money as they can get their hands on, and they'll make taxes for everything in order to get it. They have so-called "progressive" taxation which means the wealthier people pay a larger percentage of their earnings, despite the fact that these are the same people who are meant to be providing jobs. What is the incentive to create more jobs for people if by doing so you end up losing money because you are suddenly in a higher income bracket? A flat rate tax system is fair to everyone, since everyone pays the same proportion of their earnings. The rich can afford to create more jobs, and by doing so have an incentive (since they actually make a profit). The workers save more money since they get higher wages, and pay less tax on food, etc.

The only people who lose are those who refuse to work, but if you don't contribute to society, why should society contribute to you? Oh, and before you misinterpret my position *again*, I am not advocating for people who have conditions that mean they cannot work. There is a difference between "refusing" to work and not being able to. The people who refuse to work can get supported by private charity, if some lunatic wants to set up a private charity dedicated to slackers. It isn't the business of the state though.

And I think it is a pipe dream resting on an idealistic view of people and how they operate.

Funny, I think the same of Socialism

Quote:Capitalism these days is implemented with a mixture of socialism, a bad move for sure.

Sorry, Adrian. It's the only good thing about those miserable bastards. We need much more control over their activities.

Frankly, I think it would be a good thing to hang a couple of fucking bankers and CEOs just to scare the rest of the cocksuckers straight.

(April 8, 2010 at 7:07 pm)Tiberius Wrote: My view of capitalism is a different representation, I'll grant you that. It isn't a misrepresentation though. There is a difference.

Capitalism these days is implemented with a mixture of socialism, a bad move for sure. They put heavy taxes on everything, especially business, and expect businesses to provide jobs. If businesses paid no tax, and there was an active encouragement for new business to start up, you'd have far more jobs being created.

Of course, the government is the real greedy party in modern politics. They want as much money as they can get their hands on, and they'll make taxes for everything in order to get it. They have so-called "progressive" taxation which means the wealthier people pay a larger percentage of their earnings, despite the fact that these are the same people who are meant to be providing jobs. What is the incentive to create more jobs for people if by doing so you end up losing money because you are suddenly in a higher income bracket? A flat rate tax system is fair to everyone, since everyone pays the same proportion of their earnings. The rich can afford to create more jobs, and by doing so have an incentive (since they actually make a profit). The workers save more money since they get higher wages, and pay less tax on food, etc.

The only people who lose are those who refuse to work, but if you don't contribute to society, why should society contribute to you? Oh, and before you misinterpret my position *again*, I am not advocating for people who have conditions that mean they cannot work. There is a difference between "refusing" to work and not being able to. The people who refuse to work can get supported by private charity, if some lunatic wants to set up a private charity dedicated to slackers. It isn't the business of the state though.

Just wondering, have you taken any economics classes? Taxes are used for a lot more than just bringing in revenue for the government. They're also useful for regulating people's behaviors.