(March 23, 2014 at 11:28 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Why don't Christians just admit the elephant in the room? Their faith doesn't depend on evidence and citing written testimony from 2,000 years ago is merely grasping at straws. It demonstrates how little substance truly lies at the core of their beliefs. If there's one thing I've learned in my 26 years on Earth, it's to not take everybody's claims at face value until they the produce sufficient reasons why I should. Christianity UTTERLY FAILS at even this.

Yet it's so fucking popular. AMAZING!

(March 23, 2014 at 11:33 pm)tor Wrote:

(March 23, 2014 at 11:28 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Why don't Christians just admit the elephant in the room? Their faith doesn't depend on evidence and citing written testimony from 2,000 years ago is merely grasping at straws. It demonstrates how little substance truly lies at the core of their beliefs. If there's one thing I've learned in my 26 years on Earth, it's to not take everybody's claims at face value until they the produce sufficient reasons why I should. Christianity UTTERLY FAILS at even this.

Yet it's so fucking popular. AMAZING!

Because it's so simple and contains all the right ingredients to satisfy an ego-- just not a skeptical or curious one.

(March 23, 2014 at 9:48 pm)Aractus Wrote: Explains that some people can misinterpret what they see - mind you most Elvis sightings were well after the first 40 days of his death. What it doesn't explain is why do we have all the disciples and all the apostles called as witnesses to the event, plus another 500 Christians? Surely you're not going to tell me that of all 11 disciples and however many apostles there were at that time that none of them would be recorded as saying "I never saw the risen Christ"?

Do we now? I'm not aware that we have any witnesses at all. Outside of Christian mythology, do we have any evidence of any of your claims?

Even your own mythology isn't consistent. You claim 500 Christians saw the risen Christ (reference to the Pauline letters). Yet the Book of Acts places the number of Christians at 120.

The Wholly Babble Wrote:Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

And what about the very event they are said to have witnessed? Did Jesus ascend into Heaven on the very day of his resurrection (Luke) or did he terry for 8 days to show himself to Thomas (John) or did he preach for 40 days before being taken up into Heaven (Acts).

The Wholly Babble Wrote:Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

You'd think eye-witnesses to an event where a dead man came back to life and flew up into the sky (presumably to board a space ship that would take him to Heaven, since we don't believe that there are any angels actually living in the clouds anymore) would get these details straight. This is just one of many gaffes in the resurrection fable.

Sorry, I know this is going to shock you, but as skeptics we just don't buy that the fanciful tales of your Wholly Babble are "historical documents" recorded by "reliable eye-witnesses". To believe anything about The Historical Jesus, I'd have to see corroboration outside of Christian mythology. You're just going to have to do better than "The Bible says..."

Can I get something clarified? Do all Christians believe that aliens regularly visit Earth based on their threshold of what constitutes as evidence (i.e. eye-witness testimony), or is it only those who read the Bible as historical documentation?

(March 24, 2014 at 1:57 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Can I get something clarified? Do all Christians believe that aliens regularly visit Earth based on their threshold of what constitutes evidence i.e. eye-witness testimony, or is it only those who read the Bible as historical documentation?

You know the answer so why bother asking?
No they believe the bible because it's the truth because they were told so when they were little while all other religions and so on are false. We've been doing this billions of times.

(March 24, 2014 at 1:58 am)tor Wrote:

(March 24, 2014 at 1:57 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Can I get something clarified? Do all Christians believe that aliens regularly visit Earth based on their threshold of what constitutes evidence i.e. eye-witness testimony, or is it only those who read the Bible as historical documentation?

You know the answer so why bother asking?
No they believe the bible because it's the truth because they were told so when they were little while all other religions and so on are false. We've been doing this billions of times.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I like to believe that somewhere inside the believer's brain lie some neurons coded for honest introspection.

How does he even know there were lots of people who seen this shit?
I run the experiment myself. Come to a secluded village. Tell a rumor to someone. Come back 1 year later and the rumor turned into a legend. Also the legend is developed. There are more people involved. Events are cooler. Special effects are better.
All it takes is people saying things to one another.
There is no way to establish the facts of what happened 2000 years ago when there is no info left other then a freaking old book of legends.

(March 23, 2014 at 11:09 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: You forgot to take the quote in context. Let's look at the surrounding verses:

"50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

It is a curious way of wording it, isn't it? At the moment that Jesus cries out and "gives up his spirit," the bodies of many holy people were brought to life. But they don't come out of the tombs until after Jesus' resurrection. Did Matthew mean that Jesus returned to godhood immediately? Otherwise, the first words from those holy people would have been "for fucks sake, didn't any of you assholes hear me banging on the inside of that tomb for three-and-a-half goddamn days???"