(April 2, 2014 at 7:17 am)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote:

(April 2, 2014 at 7:13 am)Alex K Wrote: I concur, I'm a stupid piece of garbage without integrity. Moving on...

Oh wait, do I understand you correctly, if I would tell you now that you have to become muslim immediately because I don't allow otherwise, you are going to kill yourself?

No i would kill you first.and besides you cant conplain about me insulting you when called me stupid first. by the way who is Godwin?

Oh but I didn't complain at all! But anyways... it's good to know that you go around killing people for telling you things you don't like. I hope I live far away from you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Lots of good advice in this thread, and some much better than I can give. Just wanted to give you some encouragement and support. Telling your parents may or may not be a great idea, and really only you can decide that for yourself. If it is something that is really burning you to get out then think hard on it before you tell them otherwise maybe just let it be an unspoken understanding between the three of you. When you're really young it's easy to feel the need to flaunt everything about yourself (if you're religious you're super religious, if your atheist your mega atheist etc etc). Part of developing our identities, but in reality the rest of the world doesn't really care all that much about your identity. The only person that should matter to is yourself really. As you age you become less likely to feel the need to force your views on others, or to even tell them things about yourself. My experience at least. You don't want to say something now in your youthful enthusiasm that may come back and haunt you in your adulthood (in the form of a broken relationship with your parents etc...so many of the people we see in psychotherapy are there because of parental issues so if you can avoid these do so..although maybe them forcing you to go to church will cause issues of control at a later date...time to stop, bad habit lol) So if you think telling them will cause problems don't. As far as going to church is concerned if it doesn't bother you completely then I'd recommend you continue to go until you are capable of supporting yourself simply for self preservation (economic etc). If you can though maybe do it out of respect for them. They may be silly and deluded by this whole god thing, but they are still the people who raised you.

(April 2, 2014 at 7:38 am)Alex K Wrote:

(April 2, 2014 at 7:17 am)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote: No i would kill you first.and besides you cant conplain about me insulting you when called me stupid first. by the way who is Godwin?

Oh but I didn't complain at all! But it's good to know that you go around killing people for telling you things you don't like. I hope I live far away from you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Dont strawman my position. you said that you would force me to be a muslim. so i would kill you if you did that and would have every right to. Iam disapointed with pathetically childish and dishonest you are being.you started firing insults at me for no reason.Second the point iam making is that its a slippery slope.at what point will stand up for yourself, and how far are will you go to maintain your cover.You should also think about how will the world recongnize atheists if they allow themselves to be pushed around.

(April 2, 2014 at 7:53 am)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote:

(April 2, 2014 at 7:38 am)Alex K Wrote: Oh but I didn't complain at all! But it's good to know that you go around killing people for telling you things you don't like. I hope I live far away from you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Dont strawman my position. you said that you would force me to be a muslim. so i would kill you if you did that and would have every right to. Iam disapointed with pathetically childish and dishonest you are being.you started firing insults at me for no reason.Second the point iam making is that its a slippery slope.at what point will stand up for yourself, and how far are will you go to maintain your cover.You should also think about how will the world recongnize atheists if they allow themselves to be pushed around.

Of course we should stand up for atheism publicly, as I've very clearly stated in this very thread. And I'm as vocal an atheist as it gets IRL. However, unlike you, I'm not asking for this fight to be fought on my behalf by random 15 year olds who depend on their parents' support for their livelihood, which you ask them to jeopardize so carelessly just to make a stupid point.

However, what really earns you my disdain is that you trivialize the holocaust in this way.

---

(April 2, 2014 at 7:50 am)OGirly Wrote: Lots of good advice in this thread, and some much better than I can give. Just wanted to give you some encouragement and support. Telling your parents may or may not be a great idea, and really only you can decide that for yourself. If it is something that is really burning you to get out then think hard on it before you tell them otherwise maybe just let it be an unspoken understanding between the three of you. When you're really young it's easy to feel the need to flaunt everything about yourself (if you're religious you're super religious, if your atheist your mega atheist etc etc). Part of developing our identities, but in reality the rest of the world doesn't really care all that much about your identity. The only person that should matter to is yourself really. As you age you become less likely to feel the need to force your views on others, or to even tell them things about yourself. My experience at least. You don't want to say something now in your youthful enthusiasm that may come back and haunt you in your adulthood (in the form of a broken relationship with your parents etc...so many of the people we see in psychotherapy are there because of parental issues so if you can avoid these do so..although maybe them forcing you to go to church will cause issues of control at a later date...time to stop, bad habit lol) So if you think telling them will cause problems don't. As far as going to church is concerned if it doesn't bother you completely then I'd recommend you continue to go until you are capable of supporting yourself simply for self preservation (economic etc). If you can though maybe do it out of respect for them. They may be silly and deluded by this whole god thing, but they are still the people who raised you.

Back on topic - partly very well put. However, I have some disagreements. Shutting up about your views in order to avoid psychotherapy because of
broken relationships... that sounds just wrong...
In any case, it's everyone's individual judgement whether they think it's a good idea or not, whether they feel the need to proclaim their views or not.
However, you seem to belittle atheist activism as some kind of juvenile phase, something that you just don't do anymore once you're grown up, and boy that really annoys me. Atheists are the most mistrusted group in the US, and speaking out against prejudice and bullying is not a phase of youthful enthusiasm, to be dismissed like this.

(April 2, 2014 at 8:01 am)Alex K Wrote:

(April 2, 2014 at 7:53 am)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote: Dont strawman my position. you said that you would force me to be a muslim. so i would kill you if you did that and would have every right to. Iam disapointed with pathetically childish and dishonest you are being.you started firing insults at me for no reason.Second the point iam making is that its a slippery slope.at what point will stand up for yourself, and how far are will you go to maintain your cover.You should also think about how will the world recongnize atheists if they allow themselves to be pushed around.

Of course we should stand up for atheism publicly, as I've very clearly stated in this very thread. And I'm as vocal an atheist as it gets IRL. However, unlike you, I'm not asking for this fight to be fought on my behalf by random 15 year olds who depend on their parents' support for their livelihood, which you ask them to jeopardize so carelessly just to make a stupid point.

However, what really earns you my disdain is that you trivialize the holocaust in this way.

No one is making light of the holocaust.it shows what happends when a person allows society to have command over what they believe and what actions they take.And i have to disagree with you when you say it isn't their fight,we as a community have to stand together, individuals compose society and we all have a stake in this.Its not easy but fighting oppression never is.

(April 2, 2014 at 7:50 am)OGirly Wrote: Lots of good advice in this thread, and some much better than I can give. Just wanted to give you some encouragement and support. Telling your parents may or may not be a great idea, and really only you can decide that for yourself. If it is something that is really burning you to get out then think hard on it before you tell them otherwise maybe just let it be an unspoken understanding between the three of you. When you're really young it's easy to feel the need to flaunt everything about yourself (if you're religious you're super religious, if your atheist your mega atheist etc etc). Part of developing our identities, but in reality the rest of the world doesn't really care all that much about your identity. The only person that should matter to is yourself really. As you age you become less likely to feel the need to force your views on others, or to even tell them things about yourself. My experience at least. You don't want to say something now in your youthful enthusiasm that may come back and haunt you in your adulthood (in the form of a broken relationship with your parents etc...so many of the people we see in psychotherapy are there because of parental issues so if you can avoid these do so..although maybe them forcing you to go to church will cause issues of control at a later date...time to stop, bad habit lol) So if you think telling them will cause problems don't. As far as going to church is concerned if it doesn't bother you completely then I'd recommend you continue to go until you are capable of supporting yourself simply for self preservation (economic etc). If you can though maybe do it out of respect for them. They may be silly and deluded by this whole god thing, but they are still the people who raised you.

Wise and considered.

I've got to back up Alex K on this one. Standing up for yourself is all well and good, but there's a big difference between Germans who should have stood up to Hitler and a 15 year old kid standing up against being forced to go to church by his parents. One's a life and death situation, and the other's not. Mothonis_Cathicgal's analogy just doesn't work, and yeah, I agree with calling Godwin on it.

Tolerating annoying behavior from your parents for a few years, until you're no longer financially dependent on them for survival, is perfectly normal. Most teenagers are annoyed by their parents through much of their teen years. Most of the time, it's minor enough that they get over it. If not, they apparently end up in psychotherapy with OGirly.

Creeper hasn't told us that much about his situation, so we really can't judge. Are his parents born again evangelicals, or relatively liberal Christians? Do they get very angry with people who oppose their views, or are they more laid back about it? Have they spoken about their feelings towards atheists before? The rest of us can't even begin to determine how to advise him without this information. But if there's a chance they could disown him and kick him out of the house, then I agree that he should just keep his mouth shut until he's out of the house.

(April 2, 2014 at 10:34 am)Fromper Wrote: Creeper hasn't told us that much about his situation, so we really can't judge. Are his parents born again evangelicals, or relatively liberal Christians? Do they get very angry with people who oppose their views, or are they more laid back about it? Have they spoken about their feelings towards atheists before? The rest of us can't even begin to determine how to advise him without this information. But if there's a chance they could disown him and kick him out of the house, then I agree that he should just keep his mouth shut until he's out of the house.

Yeah, that's why I asked him(?), but we really don't know anything at all.

(April 2, 2014 at 6:48 am)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote: I extremely disagree with this view. lack of belief should not also mean lack of integrity or courage.I would tell the truth even if it means death penalty.Think about how many nazis went along with hitler even though they didnt believe what he believe,they use the excuse,that there safety was being threatened. Besides your sending message that atheists have no courage to the christian community.

I never said that lack of belief equates to lack of integrity or courage if you don't scream about it all the time, and it's all well and good for you to say that you would tell the truth even if it meant the death penalty, but that doesn't take into account different personalities and different attitudes about one's life and its importance. It's people like you, the brave people, the fearless people, that make it possible for the people who aren't as brave and fearless as you to one day step out of their closet and be seen.

Not everyone has the same personality, the same ability to shrug off the bullying, shaming remarks, and not everyone has the same lackadaisical attitude about their life. My life is pretty fuckin' important to me and I'm not sure that I'd give it up to make a point like you would. But neither does that mean that I'll simply cave in to societal pressures.

To use your (atrociously inappropriate) holocaust example, there were people who stood up to the Nazis in defense of the Jews and gave up their lives. But there were also people who kept their mouths shut, made a show of going along with the Nazis, and had 10 Jews hidden in their attic that they fed and cared for and kept safe.

What you're doing is saying that everyone has to fall into the first category, that we all have to scream and shout and be willing to give our lives up. But that's not the only way to help people. That's not the only way to approach the situation. And to claim that everyone has to do what you would do is not seeing the bigger picture and not recognizing that there are other important roles to play. We need both kinds of people - the ones who will shout from the roof tops and take those bullets, and the one who will give people a safe place to stay and protect them when they're in danger, and all sorts of people in between.

I also agree with everything Alex K and Fromper said. Equating the plight of a 15 year old atheist with the systematic killing of a religious sect is inappropriate and totally not the same thing, and it's inappropriate to ask a minor to fight for something that could put his safety and well being at risk. We adults should be fighting for him, and if he agrees with you, Mothonis, than it's up to him to decide that being public about his atheism is worth more to him than having a roof over his head. That's not a choice anyone should prescribe his answer to, not you, not me, not anyone in these forums. He has to make that choice for himself.

(April 1, 2014 at 8:52 am)Creeper23782 Wrote:

(April 1, 2014 at 2:21 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: How old are you? Do you live with them? Do they support you in any way? What do you hope to accomplish by telling them?

I'm 15

Are they the type to throw you out on the street? If so, bad idea.

On the other hand, if that happens and you get it in the news, atheists will raise, like, $30,000 for your college fund.