(April 16, 2014 at 10:11 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(April 16, 2014 at 10:10 am)Heywood Wrote: Just take money from the rich and give it to the poor through a progressive tax rate

Totally down.

You have to remember that a minimum wage makes it illegal for a person to sell their labor for a price which is less than that specified by the government. Minimum wage is a restriction on an individuals freedom.

I am very sympathetic to closing the disparity between the rich and poor. I just think it is stupid to think the government can close that disparity by monkeying with the labor markets. If they do...some people are screwed.

Suppose for instance you are a hiring manager and you have two applicants that are equal in every respect save one. One applicant just got out of prison for theft. You are forced to pay $10.10 an hour. The ex con begs you for a chance to show that he has reformed his ways. Why should you even consider taking on the extra risk of hiring the ex-con when you have another candidate you feel will do the job equally well?

However if the ex-con was allowed to sell his labor at any rate, the ex-con could agree to work for less....thus compensate you for taking on the risk of employing a known thief who promises he has reformed his ways.

Which is exactly what corporations want. They know if they can pay others less than they can force others to accept less. Leading to lower wages. That is why republicans and the corporations have worked so hard to kill off the unions with right to work states (which leads to lower wages) and other laws (similar to what Walker passed in Wisconsin) to further decrease the influence of government unions.

That is why our economy isn't performing as well as it should. Lower wages lead to lower demand which of course leads to lower employment.

In your scenario, both will end up employed at higher wages if we have a higher minimum wage.

(April 16, 2014 at 10:57 am)Heywood Wrote: You have to remember that a minimum wage makes it illegal for a person to sell their labor for a price which is less than that specified by the government. Minimum wage is a restriction on an individuals freedom.

I see it differently. I see it as restricting one person or small group's freedom who would otherwise even more so restrict the freedom of many, namely all the employees of that one person or small group. So actually minimum wage is expanding the freedom to pursue happiness for many people and not really hurting anyone's pursuits, except perhaps an individual who's sole desire is to consume as many resources for personal gain as possible. But to modify what one prominent Republican once said, "Corporations aren't people, my friend."

Quote:I am very sympathetic to closing the disparity between the rich and poor. I just think it is stupid to think the government can close that disparity by monkeying with the labor markets. If they do...some people are screwed.

Who else is going to close it? The compassionate Wall Street executive?

Quote:Suppose for instance you are a hiring manager and you have two applicants that are equal in every respect save one. One applicant just got out of prison for theft. You are forced to pay $10.10 an hour. The ex con begs you for a chance to show that he has reformed his ways. Why should you even consider taking on the extra risk of hiring the ex-con when you have another candidate you feel will do the job equally well?

However if the ex-con was allowed to sell his labor at any rate, the ex-con could agree to work for less....thus compensate you for taking on the risk of employing a known thief who promises he has reformed his ways.

Wait, so what are you advocating, that we treat ex-cons like slaves?

(April 16, 2014 at 11:06 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(April 16, 2014 at 10:57 am)Heywood Wrote: You have to remember that a minimum wage makes it illegal for a person to sell their labor for a price which is less than that specified by the government. Minimum wage is a restriction on an individuals freedom.

I see it differently. I see it as restricting one person or small group's freedom who would otherwise even more so restrict the freedom of many, namely all the employees of that one person or small group. So actually minimum wage is expanding the freedom to pursue happiness for many people and not really hurting anyone's pursuits, except perhaps an individual who's sole desire is to consume as many resources for personal gain as possible. But to modify what one prominent Republican once said, "Corporations aren't people, my friend."

Then when they argued that a minimum wage was necessary to prevent blacks from undercutting white labor(and thus put their negro hands and feet on the economic ladder) you agree there is some truth to that argument?

I answered your question about who would close the disparity....My solution is the negative income tax that guarantees everyone a basic income.

I am advocating we don't price ex-cons out of the labor market and thus prevent them from climbing the economic ladder. Give them an option to work instead of crime....If you do some might reform.

(April 16, 2014 at 9:41 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Heywood is either extremely wealthy or duped. Or possibly both?

He's just your typical republicunt asswipe who thinks that if someone isn't rich they aren't worth shit.

Fuck. I feel the same way about hypocritical xtian bastards.

(April 16, 2014 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: He's just your typical republicunt asswipe who thinks that if someone isn't rich they aren't worth shit.

Which is somewhat ironic, considering that Republicans rely upon the ignorant theistic non-wealthy who reside in those bible-belt red states.

(April 16, 2014 at 9:41 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Heywood is either extremely wealthy or duped. Or possibly both?

He's going to win the lottery any day now and become a millionaire. That's why we need to lower taxes for the rich, and less labor laws for the multinational company he's starting right after he wins.

(April 16, 2014 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote:

(April 16, 2014 at 9:41 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Heywood is either extremely wealthy or duped. Or possibly both?

He's just your typical republicunt asswipe who thinks that if someone isn't rich they aren't worth shit.

Fuck. I feel the same way about hypocritical xtian bastards.

Minimalist.....You are a peddler of hate. Your goal in this forum is to try to get people to hate anyone who doesn't think like you do. You don't care about individual freedom or welfare. What you care about is promoting your own worldview and silencing thru insults anyone who opposes it.

Minimalist....you are a buffoon....an evil hateful one. I have about as much respect for you as I do Adolph Hitler.

(April 16, 2014 at 11:59 am)Heywood Wrote: you are a buffoon.

I'm thinking about how this negative income tax coupled with no minimum wage would work.
So everyone gets subsidized by the government to make a minimum salary. At the same time corporations can pay as low as they want. What will happen is the corporations will pay $1 an hour and the government will pick up the rest of the tab.
This smells like corporate welfare.