Islam is the most dangerous of the major 3. It is the only one successfully inspiring violence to spread itself at the moment. It is also the fastest growing. I sure do hope that the next generation of Muslims is more open and free-thinking. The internet will help, but secular education is the best tool to accomplish this.

(April 18, 2014 at 9:44 pm)Lek Wrote:

(April 17, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Vegamo Wrote: When I was a child, being raised around Sunni Muslims (In Syria) wasn’t an easy task. After being indoctrinated as a child at home and in school, it became a total pain in the ass.

Praying 5 times a day (Constant work)
Ramadan (Starve all day)
The points system (Which means every deed is being recorded)

It was just a big mind fuck, I was always paranoid because of my bad behavior as kid and at one point in life I lost my motivation for the future because I was sure that I was going to hell. When I migrated to the states at 12, religion got even harder. Now I am seeing kids eat during my fasting in ramadan, now I am eating peanut butter at school because lunch contained pork, now I am seeing kids make out and have relationships while I can’t because I have to be married.When I was 22 ( I was an agnostic) I dated a christian girl and was intensely exposed to christianity. I realized there is hardly any effort needed to be a christian. Here I am with this christian girl drinking, having sex (and anal sex), no need for prayers, christmas was full of gifts and good food, and when it came to worship? We went to the local church where we sat on CHAIRS and sang songs about God AS HE WILL FORGIVE US FOR OUR SINS!Of course the conversion failed and I later converted to REALITY. Looking back at everything, it’s pretty obvious that religions age and weaken their grip on society as people demand rights and freedom. Here you have it, a religion that hardly requires any effort but to believe in something, that is a sign of near extinction. Islam needs more work but it’s catching up thanks to the internet.

The biggest problem with your understanding of christianity is that it doesn't appear that you were exposed to christianity. Sex outside of marriage and drunkeness are both condemmed in the bible and Jesus told us to pray to the God the Father regularly. I can't judge you're girlfriend's state of faith, but it sure didn't show in her actions. I will say that everyone who claims to be a christian is not necessarily a christian.

Yeah, Christians never have sex outside marriage or get drunk...Oh except the majority of them, that's all.

(April 18, 2014 at 9:44 pm)Lek Wrote: I will say that everyone who claims to be a christian is not necessarily a christian.

Listen, I know you've got to throw up this dishonest little defense mechanism to stop other people's actions reflecting poorly on the group- I don't think they do, in this case, but you clearly do- but what you really mean to say is that you think this particular person is bad at being a christian. Christianity is a statement of beliefs and not actions, and you can't possibly know about anyone else's true beliefs, so... let's not stoop to lying.

(April 18, 2014 at 4:31 pm)ThePinsir Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 4:04 pm)Jiggerj Wrote: I don't even believe there are religious people. They're all faking it because if they truly believed in a god that can drown every living thing on the planet, kill all the firstborn of Egypt, send plagues and infestations, send his own son to be tortured and killed, well, these so-called believers would be so frightened they'd be praying fervently 24 hours a day.

I tend to think the same way. I don't think most people reaaaaaly believe in a god. They believe in belief.

However, to state that is utmost arrogance. It's the same as a xian tell me I really do believe. It's unfair to put words in someones else's mouth...or ideas in their heads, so to speak.

So, I just smile and wave lol

what you said

(April 19, 2014 at 2:39 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 9:44 pm)Lek Wrote: I will say that everyone who claims to be a christian is not necessarily a christian.

Listen, I know you've got to throw up this dishonest little defense mechanism to stop other people's actions reflecting poorly on the group- I don't think they do, in this case, but you clearly do- but what you really mean to say is that you think this particular person is bad at being a christian. Christianity is a statement of beliefs and not actions, and you can't possibly know about anyone else's true beliefs, so... let's not stoop to lying.

If you'll notice, I did say that I couldn't judge the state of her faith, but if what he said was true, she wasn't exhibiting a christian lifestyle. Of course, christianity is easy if you can live any way you want and still have salvation, but that's not christianity. Like I've stated before, faith includes the desire to do God's will - it's a change of heart. If you have no desire to follow Jesus, then you are not of the christian faith. You can call yourself a christian, but that 's not what yor are. Christians will sin, but overall they're live a life characterized by a commitment to following Christ.

You guys are so full of shit.

YES SHE WAS FAITHFUL, YES HER FAMLY WAS VERY FAITHFUL.
WHY? Because when I announced my atheism her family flipped out and started persuading her to end the relationship.

She even confronted me once about it saying "This wasn't what I saw in you a year ago, we went to church and you also said you were going to convert to christianity"

Check my other thread it's a follow up to this:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-25476.html

So there you have it, someone took their religion so seriously to the point of having to make a decision between their family or me.

Every Christian/Catholic girl I've dated let me put it in her butt, so NO it's just a labeling mechanism where people can go to church and not feel guilty after doing WHATEVER on saturday night.

Christianity is the biggest joke of a religion I've ever seen, and don't get me wrong Islam is worse, but at least muslims struggle in their worship.

(April 19, 2014 at 1:20 pm)Vegamo Wrote: You guys are so full of shit.

YES SHE WAS FAITHFUL, YES HER FAMLY WAS VERY FAITHFUL.
WHY? Because when I announced my atheism her family flipped out and started persuading her to end the relationship.

She even confronted me once about it saying "This wasn't what I saw in you a year ago, we went to church and you also said you were going to convert to christianity"

Check my other thread it's a follow up to this:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-25476.html

So there you have it, someone took their religion so seriously to the point of having to make a decision between their family or me.

Every Christian/Catholic girl I've dated let me put it in her butt, so NO it's just a labeling mechanism where people can go to church and not feel guilty after doing WHATEVER on saturday night.

Christianity is the biggest joke of a religion I've ever seen, and don't get me wrong Islam is worse, but at least muslims struggle in their worship.

Are you saying that she was faithful to what is taught in the bible?

(April 19, 2014 at 2:39 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 18, 2014 at 9:44 pm)Lek Wrote: I will say that everyone who claims to be a christian is not necessarily a christian.

Listen, I know you've got to throw up this dishonest little defense mechanism to stop other people's actions reflecting poorly on the group- I don't think they do, in this case, but you clearly do- but what you really mean to say is that you think this particular person is bad at being a christian. Christianity is a statement of beliefs and not actions, and you can't possibly know about anyone else's true beliefs, so... let's not stoop to lying.

“Matthew 7: 21Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Also half the Catholics in France claim to not believe in God...pretty sure a prerequisite to being a Christian is believing in God.

(April 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm)Polaris Wrote: Also half the Catholics in France claim to not believe in God...pretty sure a prerequisite to being a Christian is believing in God.

This means that you and I agree: I'm saying that judging a person as "not a christian" based on their actions skips over the fact that belief is a prerequisite. Nobody in their right mind would call an atheist who went to church a christian, which demonstrates that the qualifier for christianity is belief in a god, not strict adherence to the commandments. Whenever a person stoops to the No True Scotsman fallacy, what they really mean to say is that the person in question is bad at being a christian, not that they aren't one due to their actions.

Lek Wrote:If you'll notice, I did say that I couldn't judge the state of her faith, but if what he said was true, she wasn't exhibiting a christian lifestyle. Of course, christianity is easy if you can live any way you want and still have salvation, but that's not christianity. Like I've stated before, faith includes the desire to do God's will - it's a change of heart. If you have no desire to follow Jesus, then you are not of the christian faith. You can call yourself a christian, but that 's not what yor are. Christians will sin, but overall they're live a life characterized by a commitment to following Christ.

So if I, as an atheist, followed all the commandments that you think are important and performed all the necessary actions, just without believing in god, would that make me a christian?

(April 19, 2014 at 4:01 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 19, 2014 at 3:33 pm)Polaris Wrote: Also half the Catholics in France claim to not believe in God...pretty sure a prerequisite to being a Christian is believing in God.

This means that you and I agree: I'm saying that judging a person as "not a christian" based on their actions skips over the fact that belief is a prerequisite. Nobody in their right mind would call an atheist who went to church a christian, which demonstrates that the qualifier for christianity is belief in a god, not strict adherence to the commandments. Whenever a person stoops to the No True Scotsman fallacy, what they really mean to say is that the person in question is bad at being a christian, not that they aren't one due to their actions.

Lek Wrote:If you'll notice, I did say that I couldn't judge the state of her faith, but if what he said was true, she wasn't exhibiting a christian lifestyle. Of course, christianity is easy if you can live any way you want and still have salvation, but that's not christianity. Like I've stated before, faith includes the desire to do God's will - it's a change of heart. If you have no desire to follow Jesus, then you are not of the christian faith. You can call yourself a christian, but that 's not what yor are. Christians will sin, but overall they're live a life characterized by a commitment to following Christ.

So if I, as an atheist, followed all the commandments that you think are important and performed all the necessary actions, just without believing in god, would that make me a christian?

No. Faith in Christ is a prerequisite to being a christian. A person who does have faith in Christ will be comitted to living a good lifestyle because it is his desire to do Jesus' will. If I don't desire to do his will then I don't have faith. Also, if I live a good lifestyle and deny the existence of God, I am not a christian, even if I call myself one. Faith is what saves you and your lifestyle is evidence of your faith.

To Polaris: Well put.