OK, gonna go back to my JW years for this one.

The idea is that the universe is so vast for 2 possible (and very likely both) reasons....

First, in the original perfect world, man would live forever, giving him enough time to eventually develop the technology needed to reach far into space.

Second, there would be more life created on other worlds throughout the universe. But this creative process was put on hold till the debacle of Satan, Adam and Eve right on earth was sorted out first.
The idea here being that earth would set a 'legal precedent' for any other future life created: Rebel and things go south. Listen to Jehovah and all goes well.

A genius god, a god who established the laws of quantum mechanics and relatively and chemistry; a god who created billions of suns; a god who's divine will created the principles that create black holes and pulsars...

...doesn't want you to touch yourself.

The bible does say that God created the earth for mankind and we are his most important creation here, but it doesn't say we are his greatest creation anywhere. For one thing the bible says we are below the angels. Who knows how many beings he created throughout the universe. I don't see where the vastness of the universe would raise a red flag for christians. He's no more or less God, whether he created just our solar system or an infinitely larger universe, or if he created any other beings whom he also loves. Christianity is anything but geocentric as the christian's life is to revolve around Christ, not ourselves. We are to give up our own desires for God's desire for us.

(May 25, 2014 at 1:01 am)Lek Wrote: The bible does say that God created the earth for mankind and we are his most important creation here, but it doesn't say we are his greatest creation anywhere. For one thing the bible says we are below the angels. Who knows how many beings he created throughout the universe. I don't see where the vastness of the universe would raise a red flag for christians. He's no more or less God, whether he created just our solar system or an infinitely larger universe, or if he created any other beings whom he also loves. Christianity is anything but geocentric as the christian's life is to revolve around Christ, not ourselves. We are to give up our own desires for God's desire for us.

I have a question.

Do you believe there are other universes?

Without delving into parallel universe stuff, or "soap-bubble" theories, or alternate futures, I don't mean extra trans-dimensional "beyond space and time" stuff; just simply, did God create other universes?

(May 25, 2014 at 1:18 am)topher Wrote: I have a question.

Do you believe there are other universes?

Without delving into parallel universe stuff, or "soap-bubble" theories, or alternate futures, I don't mean extra trans-dimensional "beyond space and time" stuff; just simply, did God create other universes?

It depends on the meaning of "universe". If it means every material thing that exists, then there is only one material universe. If it means something more limited, then I believe there could be more.

(May 24, 2014 at 11:49 pm)LostLocke Wrote: OK, gonna go back to my JW years for this one.

The idea is that the universe is so vast for 2 possible (and very likely both) reasons....

First, in the original perfect world, man would live forever, giving him enough time to eventually develop the technology needed to reach far into space.

Second, there would be more life created on other worlds throughout the universe. But this creative process was put on hold till the debacle of Satan, Adam and Eve right on earth was sorted out first.
The idea here being that earth would set a 'legal precedent' for any other future life created: Rebel and things go south. Listen to Jehovah and all goes well.

So the Earth isn't the centre but it is first?

Kinda problematic in its own right isn't it.

The universe is 13.72 billion years old.
The earth is 4.6 billion years old.
Humanity is about 100,000 years old.
Jesus appeared 2,000 years ago.

Not exactly rushed off his feet is he, this God character?

(May 25, 2014 at 1:25 am)Lek Wrote:

(May 25, 2014 at 1:18 am)topher Wrote: I have a question.

Do you believe there are other universes?

Without delving into parallel universe stuff, or "soap-bubble" theories, or alternate futures, I don't mean extra trans-dimensional "beyond space and time" stuff; just simply, did God create other universes?

It depends on the meaning of "universe". If it means every material thing that exists, then there is only one material universe. If it means something more limited, then I believe there could be more.

The only reason I ask is so I can put this in context.

Before the discovery that the Earth was indeed a planet, floating in space, it was believed the Earth was the only place you could really "be". It only made sense to say that the Earth is everything in "our world", most likely due to the spread of religion. A God or Gods, in the imperceptible Heavens, looking down upon the Earth. Pretty standard stuff for theism. Then, with the invention and improvement of the telescope, we were able to determine there are other worlds out there, orbiting our sun. Then, we found out that the Sun is just a star, and there are countless other solar systems out there. And then, we learned that all these billions stars form a galaxy. Then, we even learned that that there are as many galaxies in the universe as there are stars in a galaxy!

And throughout all of this discovery, the religious side's reaction was always:

"Okay, so maybe there are other planets, but there aren't other solar systems! Why would God do that?"

"Okay, so maybe there are other solar systems, but there aren't other galaxies! Why would God do that?"

And now we have "Okay, so maybe there are other galaxies, but there aren't other universes! Why would God do that?"

It is clear that these beliefs were created using the knowledge of the time, and that as more and more information comes our way, religious people will need to do more and more mental gymnastics in order to comply with popular science, just as they have done for the last 2000 years.


Moving on to the possibility of more of God's creations throughout the cosmos.

Were they created before or after us? What happens if they sin/fall from grace? Are they damned for all eternity the same as we were? Would/could God deliver his son/another son to their world to pay for their sins, even though the Bible says Jesus was his only son?

Questions like this are why outlandish speculations like these usually have no general consensus amongst Christians.

(May 25, 2014 at 1:55 am)topher Wrote:

(May 25, 2014 at 1:25 am)Lek Wrote: It depends on the meaning of "universe". If it means every material thing that exists, then there is only one material universe. If it means something more limited, then I believe there could be more.

The only reason I ask is so I can put this in context.

Before the discovery that the Earth was indeed a planet, floating in space, it was believed the Earth was the only place you could really "be". It only made sense to say that the Earth is everything in "our world", most likely due to the spread of religion. A God or Gods, in the imperceptible Heavens, looking down upon the Earth. Pretty standard stuff for theism. Then, with the invention and improvement of the telescope, we were able to determine there are other worlds out there, orbiting our sun. Then, we found out that the Sun is just a star, and there are countless other solar systems out there. And then, we learned that all these billions stars form a galaxy. Then, we even learned that that there are as many galaxies in the universe as there are stars in a galaxy!

And throughout all of this discovery, the religious side's reaction was always:

"Okay, so maybe there are other planets, but there aren't other solar systems! Why would God do that?"

"Okay, so maybe there are other solar systems, but there aren't other galaxies! Why would God do that?"

And now we have "Okay, so maybe there are other galaxies, but there aren't other universes! Why would God do that?"

It is clear that these beliefs were created using the knowledge of the time, and that as more and more information comes our way, religious people will need to do more and more mental gymnastics in order to comply with popular science, just as they have done for the last 2000 years.


Moving on to the possibility of more of God's creations throughout the cosmos.

Were they created before or after us? What happens if they sin/fall from grace? Are they damned for all eternity the same as we were? Would/could God deliver his son/another son to their world to pay for their sins, even though the Bible says Jesus was his only son?

Questions like this are why outlandish speculations like these usually have no general consensus amongst Christians.

Reasonable questions, but that's a lot of stuff to answer. I'll have to get back to you tomorrow.