(May 28, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 5:20 pm)Beccs Wrote: And it's my position that:

1. Your definition of what constitutes a human being is based on your own opinion and not accepted medical fact.
2. A living, breathing person should always be given priority over a fetus - a POTENTIAL human - especially before the age of viability
3. That after viability, removing a fetus that is a danger to its mother and letting "nature take its course" - especially when that course is a slow, agonising death - is itself barbaric.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

1. What constitutes a human being is not a medical fact but rather a fact of biology. A zygote is an organism. It is the starting point in the life cycle of every human being. It is a human being. Pretending that fact of nature doesn't exist isn't going to make it go away. Abortion is the act of one human being killing another....usually for reasons of convenience.

2. You do not take this position. You take the position that only the mother has the right to life and that the fetus has no rights whatsoever.

3. To be consistent in this position requires you to advocate euthanizing anyone who is terminal who can't speak for themselves.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 5:20 pm)Beccs Wrote: And it's my position that:

1. Your definition of what constitutes a human being is based on your own opinion and not accepted medical fact.
2. A living, breathing person should always be given priority over a fetus - a POTENTIAL human - especially before the age of viability
3. That after viability, removing a fetus that is a danger to its mother and letting "nature take its course" - especially when that course is a slow, agonising death - is itself barbaric.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

1. What constitutes a human being is not a medical fact but rather a fact of biology. A zygote is an organism. It is the starting point in the life cycle of every human being. It is a human being. Pretending that fact of nature doesn't exist isn't going to make it go away. Abortion is the act of one human being killing another....usually for reasons of convenience.

2. You do not take this position. You take the position that only the mother has the right to life and that the fetus has no rights whatsoever.

3. To be consistent in this position requires you to advocate euthanizing anyone who is terminal who can't speak for themselves.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:23 pm)One Above All Wrote: I don't see a debunk of my tattoo analogy, nor my logic regarding the fact that fetus and mother are one. Am I to think that you accept those arguments as valid, but don't want to appear "weak" or whatever?

(May 28, 2014 at 6:34 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 6:23 pm)One Above All Wrote: I don't see a debunk of my tattoo analogy, nor my logic regarding the fact that fetus and mother are one. Am I to think that you accept those arguments as valid, but don't want to appear "weak" or whatever?

When I stick my dick in a woman, its still my dick. Just because something is inside a woman doesn't mean it is a part of her. By your logic a woman and tapeworm are the same(if the tapeworm is inside the woman).

The woman is one organism, the tape worm is another. In the case of pregnancy, the organism inside the woman is another human being.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:31 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Heywood Wrote: 1. What constitutes a human being is not a medical fact but rather a fact of biology. A zygote is an organism. It is the starting point in the life cycle of every human being. It is a human being. Pretending that fact of nature doesn't exist isn't going to make it go away. Abortion is the act of one human being killing another....usually for reasons of convenience.

2. You do not take this position. You take the position that only the mother has the right to life and that the fetus has no rights whatsoever.

3. To be consistent in this position requires you to advocate euthanizing anyone who is terminal who can't speak for themselves.

1. Biology: the basis of modern medicine. Hence all doctors are required to study biology. Just because that is your opinion doesn't make it factual. I've already answered the "killing human beings" nonsense and will not do so again.

2. No that's what YOU read into my position. Don't tell me what I think!

3. This is just a desperate attempt to stretch the truth. Try again

(May 28, 2014 at 6:35 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 6:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: When I stick my dick in a woman, its still my dick. Just because something is inside a woman doesn't mean it is a part of her. By your logic a woman and tapeworm are the same(if the tapeworm is inside the woman).

The woman is one organism, the tape worm is another. In the case of pregnancy, the organism inside the woman is another human being.

And when you stick your dick inside her body without her permission, she has every right to kill you too.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 6:31 pm)Beccs Wrote: [quote='Losty' pid='677639' dateline='1401316539']

And when you stick your dick inside her body without her permission, she has every right to kill you too.

I always get permission.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 6:31 pm)Beccs Wrote: 1. Biology: the basis of modern medicine. Hence all doctors are required to study biology. Just because that is your opinion doesn't make it factual. I've already answered the "killing human beings" nonsense and will not do so again.

2. No that's what YOU read into my position. Don't tell me what I think!

3. This is just a desperate attempt to stretch the truth. Try again

If you studied biology then you should realize that a human zygote is a separate and distinct organism. What kind of organism is the zygote? It is a human one. Human organism are human beings.

These are basic facts about the world and because you deny them I question your claim that you are educated in this area.

---

(May 28, 2014 at 6:35 pm)Losty Wrote: And when you stick your dick inside her body without her permission, she has every right to kill you too.

I always get permission.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: When I stick my dick in a woman, its still my dick. Just because something is inside a woman doesn't mean it is a part of her.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: By your logic a woman and tapeworm are the same(if the tapeworm is inside the woman).

The woman is one organism, the tape worm is another. In the case of pregnancy, the organism inside the woman is another human being.

(May 28, 2014 at 2:59 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(May 19, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: There must be such a thing. After all, you don't have to believe in a god to stick up for the rights of the unborn.
Thoughts?

Of course there are. I've met some and there are many Atheists who are against late term abortion.

I think one reason that Atheists tend pro-choice is that there are very few secular arguments made against abortion. Most of the pro-life crowd tend towards religious arguments, which obviously don't matter a hoot to us.

(May 28, 2014 at 6:47 pm)Beccs Wrote: Yes, there are basic facts in the world and because you deny them I question your claims to have studied biology. I have already stated, which you once again have chosen to ignore, that I accept that a fetus should have more rights once it's VIABLE.