(June 6, 2014 at 9:08 am)mickiel Wrote: As far as supervenience , I think things can occur unexpectantly , but if it was deliberately done, that is different. In example, if I walk down a street and find a dime, I think nothing of it. If I walk further and find 3 dimes on the ground, I can begin to suspect things. If I walk further and find 100 dimes on the ground, yet each standing on their edges, perfectly balanced, then I can KNOW that this was deliberately done.

1. You clearly haven't looked up supervenience. Stop faking your way through discussions. I was trying to help you AVOID looking dumb by telling you what to look up.

2. If you were BORN INTO a universe with standing dimes, then they wouldn't be considered miraculous by you, any more than gravity. They'd just be another thing you didn't understand.

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(June 6, 2014 at 9:26 am)mickiel Wrote: There is evidence that cats have 90% of our genes, cows 80%, a mouse 75%, and chickens and fruitflys 60%. In my view, that is evidence that a creator used the same ingredients in many of his creations.

This is evidence, but not for what you want it to be. Why would a God designing Adam and Eve need to recycle fly or fish DNA? He created all the heavens, with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, but suddenly he needs to start recycling bug parts to make people? That's suprisingly lazy.

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(June 6, 2014 at 9:57 am)mickiel Wrote: The evidence I like using is " Civilization", excuse me for using caps again, a habit. I think some 30-50,00 years ago, god created adam, the first human he gave consciousness. Knowing that is not accepted here, lets just say whenever civilization began to emerge. I think it emerged BECAUSE god gave those humans consciousness. He did not give it fully to primordial humans.

In what universe are you not Christian? There are three Judeochristian religions, so if you believe in that mythology, you must be either Jewish, Christian or Muslim. No sincerely non-religious person starts quoting scripture to support their non-religious ideas.

(June 6, 2014 at 1:28 pm)mickiel Wrote: Because the bible is a proven historical book, and biblical archaeology is yet another proof of god.

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Complete rubbish.

The Bible gets some things correct, historically. And it gets many things wrong.

I could list them if you like.

Same with archeology. I could list these too.

By the way. Homer's Iliad and Odyssey get a lot of history and archeology right, too. Heinrich Schliemann used stories in them to find Troy in 1858, which was thought to be pure myth before that.

Does the finding of a real Troy prove that Zeus existed?

(June 6, 2014 at 1:41 pm)bennyboy Wrote: This is evidence, but not for what you want it to be. Why would a God designing Adam and Eve need to recycle fly or fish DNA? He created all the heavens, with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, but suddenly he needs to start recycling bug parts to make people? That's suprisingly lazy.

Right, commonality of DNA is evidence of evolution. If we all had unique, non-overlapping DNA, that would be something.

And we share about 25% of genes with rice and 18% with Baker's yeast. God sure was frugal! Fucking plant DNA in our bodies! Plants and fungus! Jesus, what was he thinking?

There are working, natural explanations for ears, Pluto, the origin of stars, eyes...everything you say "points to a god".

Fun fact: eyes have evolved, independently, at least 40 times, buy maybe as many as 60 times. Turns out they're not hard to evolve at all!

So, seriously, man. I know you're new here - and really outnumbered. But do you actually understand what an "argument from ignorance" or "god of the gaps" is?

(June 6, 2014 at 2:12 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: There are working, natural explanations for ears, Pluto, the origin of stars, eyes...everything you say "points to a god".

Fun fact: eyes have evolved, independently, at least 40 times, buy maybe as many as 60 times. Turns out they're not hard to evolve at all!

So, seriously, man. I know you're new here - and really outnumbered. But do you actually understand what an "argument from ignorance" or "god of the gaps" is?

Yea, its one of you're favorite trump cards that does not work for me, ignorance is one of the main reasons I have learned. And until I see anythingelse worth putting in the gaps, I'll keep putting god in there.

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(June 6, 2014 at 2:12 pm)ThePinsir Wrote: There are working, natural explanations for ears, Pluto, the origin of stars, eyes...everything you say "points to a god".

Fun fact: eyes have evolved, independently, at least 40 times, buy maybe as many as 60 times. Turns out they're not hard to evolve at all!

So, seriously, man. I know you're new here - and really outnumbered. But do you actually understand what an "argument from ignorance" or "god of the gaps" is?

And I am not outnumbered, I'm just getting started; you're going to need those numbers before this is over.

(June 6, 2014 at 10:58 am)mickiel Wrote: No, I can't see it. Minds completely unconscious of a god or gods, why and how would consciousness of ideas about a god emerge?

Fixed it for you. You can only have consciousness of something if it exists, and you cannot demonstrate that your god idea represents something that exists.