(June 10, 2014 at 11:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Let's Just Say that there is a God and He is the one described in the Bible. As much as you disagree or believe in the contrary, humor me and let's say that this is the case. If that be so and there is a hope for eternal life by placing your faith in Christ, would you accept that and receive Him? Or, would you defiantly reject this offer?

You didn't specify there was proof of his existence, so I still wouldn't believe in him.

Now, if when you said "there is a God" that you meant "God exists and we know it", then I would believe in him. As to whether or not I'd accept him, that'd be hard. He looks like a capricious jerk more often than not, so I probably wouldn't love him.

That being said, I might swear an oath of fealty. It would depend on what "eternal life" entailed. No one has given anything other than a vague answer as to what heaven even is. In the most basic sense, if the choices are:

• Side with a monster for eternal reward, or
  
• Reject the monster and get tortured for eternity
  

I'd probably have to chose the former, although it'd be creepy as hell. It's a real catch-22 you're discussing.

(June 12, 2014 at 11:55 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Dominant, check, black hair, check, brown eyes, check. Very dark brown, mind.

Ha. Knees. That's funny, that implies you'd be on the ground.

No, hanging from the ceiling in chains, trussed up like a hog is how you'd be.

you tease me with these promises....I would love to continue this conversation in a69

I agree~

(June 10, 2014 at 11:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Let's Just Say that there is a God and He is the one described in the Bible. As much as you disagree or believe in the contrary, humor me and let's say that this is the case. If that be so and there is a hope for eternal life by placing your faith in Christ, would you accept that and receive Him? Or, would you defiantly reject this offer?

You can play 'Let's Just Say' with any religion, or indeed, any proposition at all. If God wanted us to believe you, wouldn't he equip you with rhetorical ammo that isn't all duds?

(June 12, 2014 at 11:56 am)RobbyPants Wrote: You didn't specify there was proof of his existence, so I still wouldn't believe in him.

Actually that's a very good point. The OP asks whether we'd accept (and worship) the hypothetical scenario of there being the god of the bible. However, Rev and others make that assertion all the time, that the character exists in reality, so the OP and the poll are clearly a confidence trick, using sleight of hand to palm the card of atheists' denial of evidence in the absence of any presented at all. Again.

Or to put it another way: in the hypothetical scenario, how are we to know that this god exists? We've all been assuming a direct face-to-face dialogue.

(June 11, 2014 at 3:01 am)max-greece Wrote: Its a depressing thought.

I'd accept he existed but he doesn't seem worthy of worship. After all, 30% of all the angels in heaven can't be wrong.....

That's an excellent point. Supposedly, they absolutely know he's real. Supposedly, they're in heavenly bliss. Supposedly, they are well aware of the consequences of rebellion, and that their opponent is omnipotent and they can't possibly win. Yet they find Yahweh so intolerable they rebel anyway.

But when heaven is full of human souls, everything will run smoothly.....

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(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: A couple things to consider:
- God created, you nor I didn't, He created the rules, He graciously allows us to enjoy existence and His creation

If you made a robot capable of suffering, would that entitle you to torture it and still be considered good?

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: - Who are we to judge Him? As smart as we think we are for any way can possible compare His vast understand vs. ours is absurd.

We have at least as many qualifications to judge the biblical description of God to be evil as you have to judge it as good.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: - Why do you blame God when He created man with a free will to chose his own fate and the results of his own decision.

We don't blame God. God is most likely a completely fictional character. We just point out the inconsistencies in your story about him.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: And don't say well if God knew ahead of time yadda yadda yadda.

Because that would completely destroy your argument, so we better not say it!

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: No one can possibly rationalize everything nor understand fully God's Will.

Yet you lot keep telling us you know what God wants and thinks. It's not God we don't believe. God isn't making any claims. It's YOU we don't believe. You are not God, and if there is a God, you don't speak for it.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: - If God gave you a chance to be forgiven that doesn't cost you anything other than to accept it, wouldn't it be silly to refuse such a gift.

If a mugger held a gun to my head and offered not to shoot me if I begged his forgiveness, it would be pragmatic to accept his offer, yes. If you tell me on the internet that someone is going to shoot me in the head if I don't beg some guy named Sam's forgiveness, it would be the height of gullibillity to act on that. Do you understand which of those two scenarios your 'offer' most resembles?

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: The only part of the universe to be in apart from God is the very place you blame God that He will send you to.

So, you believe God is not omnipresent.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: However, you are choosing it by your pride and stubbornness.

We are choosing not to believe in claims that lack evidence and have only fallacies for support. 'Believe me or else' is one of the more ugly fallacies.

(June 10, 2014 at 11:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Let's Just Say that there is a God and He is the one described in the Bible. As much as you disagree or believe in the contrary, humor me and let's say that this is the case. If that be so and there is a hope for eternal life by placing your faith in Christ, would you accept that and receive Him? Or, would you defiantly reject this offer?

So Rev if you were presented with undeniable proof of the non-existence of god would you stop being a theist?

Or better still there was proof that a god exists and its Odin would you enter battle and hope for Valhalla?

These sort of questions are a waste of time.

Its along the line of asking "If my dick was ten foot long would it be a big dick?"

Well yes, but it isn't, is the answer.

(June 11, 2014 at 9:44 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: He may of been dealing with evil monsters of men, but He was incredibly patient and merciful.

Would you think that if it was YOUR babies he drowned? It's not a good way to go.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Would like to see where you stand if you really believed He existed.

I'm familiar with how torture works. I would do whatever the vindictive tyrant wanted to avoid the eternal suffering he would visit on me if I refused him. I'm not much for big talk, I know a minute or so of burning alive would turn that right around.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Where in the Bible does it say that there are denominations? You are either a believer or not. Simple.

Are you entirely unaware that most denominations don't agree with you on that? Most think there is a little more involved in avoiding hell than merely believing. Some teach that you will go to hell if you don't agree with what their denomination believes. In other words, take it up with your fellow Christians, we're reporting on what they believe, not what we do, concerning the Christian position on salvation: sects differ widely on the subject.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Do you wink at the great evil of men throughout history and hold contempt towards God?

No, and what does that have to do with anything? We consistently judge beings, real or fictional, by their reputed actions and words. If you commit evil, we call it like we see it, no matter what you're supposed to be.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Sir, no. I am asking if you actually believed in God, even the one of the Bible, what would you do with that?

That changes the question substantially, by opening the door to a God unlike the one described in the Bible. An omnibenevolent God who is doing his best in a vast universe despite not being literally omnipotent and omniscient and omnipresent could be admirable. It's that ridiculous pile of omnis most people throw on him that make him ridiculous rather than merely highly unlikely.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Did Hitler die to save mankind?

Since we're dealing in hypotheticals, sure. All the evil Hitler did was for the greater good in the long run, and part of his father Yahweh's plan. Would you revere him then? Or are you unwilling to play the same game of 'Let's suppose' you want us to indulge with you?

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: not sure what you are saying

The God described in the Bible leaves mental children with a being who wants to trick them into damning themselves, destroys innocent animals and babies along with wicked people, lets the devil torture Job and kill his family on a bet, and so forth. Is that the God you mean?

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Seems like God's warning that there would be a great falling away at the end rings more true reading your post.

It's almost like the authors realized their BS couldn't hold up forever.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Satan is pretty cunning considering he duped 1/3 of the angels and a vast majority of mankind.

Did Satan make himself so cunning, or did someone else make him so clever and persuasive? Wouldn't it have been Satan's sin that was the orginal sin and not ours? It's not like we committed our supposed big crime without an instigator. And if angels can sin in heaven, would it be otherwise with humans?

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(June 11, 2014 at 10:01 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Jesus said if you've seen me you have seen the Father. Jesus was quite loving, His Father is too!

Beings are best judged by their actions, not their deeds. Jesus is somewhat problematic in many ways, but if he were the son of the OT God, I would have to say he turned out much better than his father.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: It is amazing that an infinite all powerful and all knowing being would put so much interest in us but He has.

That IS quite an egotistical thing to believe.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: He is even concerned about you personally. He wants you to receive salvation today.

You keep saying stuff like that without ever giving us the slightest reason to believe that is knowledge of which you could be in possession.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: No one judges God.

So God, in your judgment, isn't good, because you don't judge God. You understand that your paltry mind is incapable of determining the moral compass of such a vast and incomprehensible being. That's refreshing.

(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: I would love for Him to share lunch with you. He can answer all your questions. Zacchaeus was converted when he did.

Name one question that Zacchaeus asked along with the answer Jesus gave, please.

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(June 11, 2014 at 10:32 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: God likes to use misfits such as I to send His message of hope and redemption.

No offense, but you seem to be saying God is too incompetent or mendacious to select representatives who are actually persuasive to anyone who evaluates claims critically.

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(June 11, 2014 at 10:42 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Just requesting civility and respect.

Which very predictably, is likely to result in you getting less of it. I know you've been using the internet longer than a week, so you should know this. Trying to control other people's language usually backfires. So the most likely explanation is that you want us to use more vulgar language than we have been. Why do you want that?

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(June 11, 2014 at 11:01 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Sorry you feel that way.

You're not sorry enough to change your tactics, I bet.

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(June 11, 2014 at 11:08 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 11:04 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: Then prove it. Show some humility and some intellectual honesty.

I pray for Scarlet Letter too.

Passive aggressive much? Is that a universal Christian quality or do you have it in particular abundance?

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(June 12, 2014 at 9:01 am)archangle Wrote: if this type of god is real, it isnt god. "god" of the bible wouldnt give a flying fuk what you believe. All it would want is for you to be the best you , you can be.

Just as he made you.

but, my guess is many would reject that too. because in the end, its not about "truth", its about being right.

You know, if you didn't call yourself an 'athiest', you'd come off as a bit less of an asshole.

I can't wait to see what his response to me is. 8D

(June 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: I can't wait to see what his response to me is. 8D

*Head assplodes* would be my guess.