(June 17, 2014 at 10:50 am)Ksa Wrote: Allah is the terrorist, he commits the crimes and the disbelievers are jurisprudential. They fight against evil and tyranny, like Boko Haram, Bin Laden etc.

You got proof of the contrary?

Okay, you have voluntarily chosen to abandon the issue and divert to other issues.

Are you speaking about "Islam" or you are speaking about "Muslim"?

Islam is an idea
Muslim is the follower of that idea
(and there are at least 5 types of the so-called Muslim from the Quran)

However, the issue is clear. . .

Islam is not Muslim
Muslim is not Islam

Islam is not Muhammad
Muhammad is not Islam
Muhammad is a Muslim, not Islam.

If you are referring those action as explaining about Islam, then you have to prove one missing premise:

"Did they follow what is taught from the Quran?"

It is so because Islam is the "ideology" from the Quran.

So which one ? Islam or Muslim ?

^ A Muslim is a person who submits his will to God. Islam is the only true religion, it was here since the Earth was created. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was the messenger of Allah, angel Gabriel was delivering Allah's message to Muhammad (pbuh). Humans who, out of their own free will choose to obey Allah are higher than the angels. I know my hierarchy, Thank you:

1) Allah
2) The prophets ( no distinction is made)
3) The believers
4) The angels
5) The disbelievers
6) Satan

We also know that Boko Haram follows the Qur'an. His actions are directly supported by it. Provide one of his actions that you think is not supported by the Qur'an and I will quote chapter number verse number to show you it is there. It is there.

Islam is a human invented sky hero club just like Christianity and Jewish, and they all are related stemming from the same past. So if you want to call Islam an idea, then treat it like an idea and not a law or religion. Some ideas and laws are bad. If you are unwilling to look in the mirror then you have no business criticizing others.

I do not find any idea good that treats girls/women like property. But that sexism isn't a patent held by Islam. Christianity keep women from voting and relegated them to baby factories as well, and their book as well treats girls/women like property. Even to this day the right wing Christians in America want to dictate to women as to what they do with their own bodies.

So it isn't just a bad idea and it isn't just Islam. You will never get me to back any "idea" that treats another human being like property.

You cannot remove the sexism from any of those holy books, because sexism in all three of those religions was the social norm back when those books were written.

(June 17, 2014 at 11:01 am)Ksa Wrote: I know my hierarchy

So which one ?

Islam or Muslim?

and if you wish to debate on this issue, you have to allow me to refer to the verses of the Quran, ie. the main source for the ideology of Islam, the Constitution.

(June 17, 2014 at 11:06 am)muslimatheism Wrote:

(June 17, 2014 at 11:01 am)Ksa Wrote: I know my hierarchy

So which one ?

Islam or Muslim?

and if you wish to debate on this issue, you have to allow me to refer to the verses of the Quran, ie. the main source for the ideology of Islam, the Constitution.

Sure, you can start by proving why Boko Haram does NOT follow the Qur'an.

(June 17, 2014 at 11:08 am)Ksa Wrote: Sure, you can start by proving why Boko Haram does NOT follow the Qur'an.

ISSUE: Whether Boko Haram does NOT follow the Qur'an.

Thank you . . . and that's quite simple. There are no verses in the Quran that Allah commands for kidnapping innocent people, or else.

Prove to me if there is one in the Quran.

(June 17, 2014 at 11:06 am)muslimatheism Wrote:

(June 17, 2014 at 11:01 am)Ksa Wrote: I know my hierarchy

So which one ?

Islam or Muslim?

and if you wish to debate on this issue, you have to allow me to refer to the verses of the Quran, ie. the main source for the ideology of Islam, the Constitution.

Did you not read a fucking thing I posted?

If you are going to call Islam an "idea", I could give a shit less. It is still a bad idea, just like Christianity and Hebrew. Those "ideas" were concocted by sexist men in an age of scientific ignorance. Do not ask me to back up an "idea" that treats another human being like property.

Any culture or religion that cannot or wont allow girls/women to make their own life choices deserves nothing but scorn and contempt. Islam does not hold a monopoly on sexism, but it sure as hell doesn't do enough to stop it.

The way to shut the west up is to clean your own fucking house first. Do not lecture us about where your morality comes from when most of the east treats women like shit.

(June 17, 2014 at 11:14 am)Brian37 Wrote: Any culture or religion that cannot or wont allow girls/women to make their own life choices deserves nothing but scorn and contempt. Islam does not hold a monopoly on sexism, but it sure as hell doesn't do enough to stop it.

ISSUE: Whether Islam don't allow girls/women to make their own life choices?

Can you please prove to me with verses from the Quran ?

I don't care if you are Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Jewish, Amish, whatever. Fuck you if you think your daughter or wife is there simply to be dictated to. That is a human being, not your slave or property.

(June 17, 2014 at 11:22 am)Brian37 Wrote: I don't care if you are Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Jewish, Amish, whatever. Fuck you if you think your daughter or wife is there simply to be dictated to. That is a human being, not your slave or property.

Okay. so you cannot prove with direct evidence from the Quran and relying on dogmatism. End.