(June 22, 2014 at 1:14 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Right, most of you are weak atheists. Understood, but it is a belief nonetheless in the sense that inherent in the statement atheism is you believe in your lack of belief concerning God(s).

So I believe that I don't believe? That's retarded.

(June 22, 2014 at 1:14 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: A few questions, besides the obvious( God showing up saying he is real act.) what evidence would sway you? For example, if the universe was designed what would that look like?

Since god chooses to hide, why should any evidence suggest god and not something else?

(June 22, 2014 at 1:14 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Secondly, where does cognitive dissonance play a role in the phenomena that is atheism. If you are an atheist because you see no reasons to think otherwise what happens when you loose a debate against someone who has stronger reasoning for an argument than you? Do you instantly switch sides? Or stubbornly continue in your belief?

There is no cognitive dissonance. Theists only "win" when the throw bullshit at you usually in the form of red herrings, strawmen, and bogus science.

The answer is very simple. I gather you are a Christian. Why don't you believe in Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism, or Buddhism? My guess is because you find them all inherently unbelievable. Looked at from outside, Christianity is as inherently unbelievable.

No one has ever invented a consistent, demonstrable god, whose existence makes any real change in the world. Thus god does not even rise to the level of a hypothesis, let alone a theory.

(June 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Good afternoon, I was genuinely curious to hear from you guys what reason(s) you have for believing in atheism or agnosticism. This is not supposed to be an exhaustive thread but rather which arguments you find effective and compelling and perhaps the circumstances that ultimately lead to your conclusion. Please don't respond (though I grant you have every right to do so) religion is dumb only dummies believe in that. Im more interested in a civil explanation of the specifics of your reasoning and foundation for your beliefs.

Kindest regards,

This is a rather fundamental misunderstanding of the stance. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. I don't have convictions for my lack of belief in unicorns, just as I don't have convictions for my lack of belief in a god or gods. To say, "What is your reason for not believing xyz." is to not acknowledge the burden of proof. If I say, "I believe unicorns exist and I can prove it." the burden of proof is on me to prove the unicorn exists. You do not have to prove me wrong if you are skeptical. I am the one who has to prove it to you as I am proposing and asserting the existence of the unicorn. If you don't believe, consider yourself an aunicornist. What is your reason for believing in a lack of belief in unicorns? That particular proposal sounds.... silly, to say the least.

Regarding coming to my stance on the existence of a god or gods, when I could no longer reconcile my previous beliefs with my current understanding of reality, I came to the realization that I had no reason to believe in them. At one point I decided to approach my religious beliefs with skepticism and research them. I was eventually left with the choice of, "I either care about what is true and pursue that, or I look for something that allows me to maintain my beliefs." I chose to pursue valuing that which is true over that which simply sounds good to me. It led me away from religion and I eventually admitted that I had no good reason to believe in a god or gods.

However, I'm not a gnostic. So my position is not, "There is no god." or "there cannot be a god." but rather, "I think it's an unknowable, unanswerable question." and also a potentially worthless question that only distracts from understanding reality.

There was never one specific thing that ultimately led me away. There was many things. Things that challenged my morals, things that challenged my understanding of the world around me, things that challenged my previous adopted ideas, things that challenged my ability to rationalize things properly and things that challenged my ability to think critically. There is no single silver bullet to dropping someone's religious beliefs.

A support system is a support structure and the foundation of that structure has to crumble piece by piece, pillar by pillar, until it cannot hold the weight anymore.

I've been interested in comparative religion and mythology since I was a child. It didn't take long before I realised that all these beliefs were just beliefs. I then discovered Jungian psychology which works for me and I'm very interested in neuroscience. There's now a lot of evidence that God and any other deity you care to name exist as subjective experiences which are produced by the brain and interpreted as a deity.

If I believed my own subjective experiences were of real deities I'd be worshipping Apollo and The Goddess. Just as well I don't believe in them because if Jesus ever turned up I'd have to worship him as well.

(June 22, 2014 at 3:06 pm)Esquilax Wrote: religion lends itself very well to ad hoc excuse making

Quote mining. Ya.

Doing the sciences at school was all I needed.

(June 22, 2014 at 1:14 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Right, most of you are weak atheists. Understood, but it is a belief nonetheless in the sense that inherent in the statement atheism is you believe in your lack of belief concerning God(s). A few questions, besides the obvious( God showing up saying he is real act.) what evidence would sway you? For example, if the universe was designed what would that look like? Secondly, where does cognitive dissonance play a role in the phenomena that is atheism. If you are an atheist because you see no reasons to think otherwise what happens when you loose a debate against someone who has stronger reasoning for an argument than you? Do you instantly switch sides? Or stubbornly continue in your belief?

Chad, it sounds like your more open to deism, than theism. Am I correct in this assessment?

Oh yay. Yet another asshole coming here to tell us what what we believe.

I'm so glad they keep coming here so I don't get confused and start thinking that atheism is a lack of belief or something silly like that!

(June 22, 2014 at 2:02 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Cinjin, so you find deism to be true?

Not sure. It's a working theory. I have no more evidence than you do.

Quote:He is just an asshole?

The record speaks for itself.

(June 22, 2014 at 1:22 pm)Insanity Wrote: I find it odd when believers ask what evidence would be required. If we knew that and there actually was a god then surely we would have found the evidence and be believers.

It doesn't even matter if we know what evidence would be compelling. According to them, their gawd is all knowing and all powerful. If that were the case, it would know exactly what evidence it would take and exactly how to present it without violating our "free will." The fact that all we get are religitards preaching at us is plenty of evidence that their gawd, at best, isn't what they think and most likely, isn't even there.

(June 22, 2014 at 2:07 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(June 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm)Arthur123 Wrote: Good afternoon, I was genuinely curious to hear from you guys what reason(s) you have for believing in atheism or agnosticism. This is not supposed to be an exhaustive thread but rather which arguments you find effective and compelling and perhaps the circumstances that ultimately lead to your conclusion. Please don't respond (though I grant you have every right to do so) religion is dumb only dummies believe in that. Im more interested in a civil explanation of the specifics of your reasoning and foundation for your beliefs.

Kindest regards,

The same reason why I "believe" in the notion that spaghetti monster does not exist, in-spite of abundance of personal testimonials of revelation from his noodliness.

"Her."

The FSM is a goddess.