It hurts them, because its true. They do indoctrinate their kids on whatever religion they follow. It is kind of geographic dependant function.

(June 23, 2014 at 6:00 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Does indoctrination carry negative connotations to the Christian ear? I never knew that if it did. Clearly there are good forms of indoctrination and I did not come out and say that theirs was bad, merely that it was a question I thought worth discussing.

I don't really know. But to my ear it carries a sense of being forced. Remember they have some sensitivity about the idea of free will. If they have to own up to coercing their kids to believe, they might have to question whether their own submission to god is sufficiently their own .. or really their parent's accomplishment.

(June 23, 2014 at 6:13 am)whateverist Wrote:

(June 23, 2014 at 6:00 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Does indoctrination carry negative connotations to the Christian ear? I never knew that if it did. Clearly there are good forms of indoctrination and I did not come out and say that theirs was bad, merely that it was a question I thought worth discussing.

I don't really know. But to my ear it carries a sense of being forced. Remember they have some sensitivity about the idea of free will. If they have to own up to coercing their kids to believe, they might have to question whether their own submission to god is sufficiently their own .. or really their parent's accomplishment.

Very true. The very essence of the Christian life is self-denial.

Whoa. Looks like we're being monitored by God's faithful, guys. This came out of nowhere (I'm still not able to post in the thread or any others, but apparently others still are)

Shalom Pickup_shonuff,

You say you joined this forum "to try and understand Christians better, to foster more civilized discussion in myself (knowing I could get banned for "cussing" is a good way to keep my *** in line), and to perhaps form a common ground by which we can work together for the betterment of the world.", yet your words you have posted here do not show this at all. Instead of trying to "relate to their mindset better, and hopefully, my brother eventually... I don't think it will be a successful endeavor.", you decided to "take calculated jabs and have fun." as one of the posters on Atheist Forums suggested and you agreed to. Your double-mindedness allowed for more dishonesty as you tried to tip-toe around topics designed to prove your point instead of truly trying to understand.

Your brother is right, you are intolerant of those who find God real and His words true. It is a shame you did not follow your first intention, to understand Christians better. It is unfortunate, for you, that you came here with the mindset to disprove certain ways of life, as teaching our children about God so you could understand. Instead, you demean the whole idea right out of the gate just in how you phrased your opening statements.

If you search your forum you will see that you are not the first to come to our site. We have had groups come from your site to "take calculated jabs and have fun", some respectful, others not. I expect more to come in the future. On your site, you are free to express yourself in any manner you wish, and you do. As you poke around reading other sites to decide where to go and what to do while you are there, it seems you forget that we also can poke around your site to find the truth behind the spurious personality you try to create.

It really does not take much to discover when someone is being deceitful. You may call it bogus, but the Holy Spirit does witness with our spirit about your spirit. I know you don't believe this, and in all honesty, you don't seem to want to even understand this, but when you do come to the point where you have to accept the truth, as we all will stand accountable before God, he is not going to accept your excuse for not looking for Him yourself because you did not like what you saw or heard in others.

True learning begins with an open mind to accept things contrary to your initial belief. Without an open mind, you will never grow out of the small box you have created for yourself, one that is sealed by your own pride and arrogance.

I do hope that you listen to your brother and stop fighting. As you say, we make him look like Einstein. Surely you would listen to Einstein. You have nothing to lose and so much to gain. I also hope that you remove your blinders and find a different place to hang out. How are you expected to grow when you have so many around you encouraging you to not believe in "fairy tales" and the "big bad Satan wolf!". You call us ignorant when you refuse to learn yourself ...

Have a good life, the next doesn't look so good for you.

I gotta say, I'm kinda creeped out. Since that fucker is probably reading this, I invite him to grow some balls and come talk his Jesus bullshit here.

(June 23, 2014 at 7:47 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I gotta say, I'm kinda creeped out. Since that fucker is probably reading this, I invite him to grow some balls and come talk his Jesus bullshit here.

I second that. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will give Supermod something no other Christian has had in 2000 years: cogent arguments and evidence -- a.k.a. good reasons to believe his snake oil.

Nah . . . he/she will most likely turn out to be just another douchebag spewing circular reasoning, laughably bad apologetics, spurious and long-discredited "philosophical" talking points, arguments from ignorance, warm and fuzzy feelings masquerading as reasons, and -- of course -- unsupported threats of damnation.

But what the hell! I'm prepared to be dazzled. Come on, Christian moderator lurker, witness to us!

(June 22, 2014 at 11:25 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: But I suppose like everything in Christianity, it's a one way street. They get to make the rules and you get to follow them. End of discussion.

That's like any onlinie forum, no matter the topic or orientation.

(June 22, 2014 at 11:25 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Also, what words were loaded? The one coherent response I got thus far took issue with "sickly" (which I used because another Christian in my original thread said children need "a doctor"... God) and "indoctrination." I don't get that one.

My choices, and why:

(June 22, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I take that as basically confirming my biggest concern about Christianity, as with all cults and religions--the word is to be taken at face value, and anything that challenges that common wisdom is to be oppressed and destroyed.

This snippet above gets away from your question of why your thread got banned in order to launch an egregious attack on their faith itself. Your point would be served much better if you stuck simply to the point that your thread was unjustly killed. By adding this in, you are going to pre-justify any action they take, given that their rules likely bar insulting their faith.

(June 22, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (assuming I "just can't get it" unless I drink the kool-aid first--which, by the way, I have, and ultimately found its contents distasteful)

Again, an attack on their faith which serves no purpose but to inflame.

(June 22, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Does anyone find my post offensive? Wanna bet it's going to cause a shit storm and get deleted anyway?

This is a rather long-winded way of saying "come at me, bro."

Don't get me wrong, PS, I'm not disagreeing with your points. But by straying from your own topic to level these attacks which serve only to inflame emotions, you're virtually guaranteeing a hot reception that will not take your basic point into account at all.

(June 23, 2014 at 2:33 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Hi rondee, good story. I just wanted to ask why you'd think it was a surprise to us that your kids respect and tolerate your religious practices and your faith?

I think you'll find that most people on here (at least me) can easily live and let live with other people about their religions just so long as it doesn't affect me/ others who don't want to hear about it and be converted.

I also wanted to ask that, as a catholic, should your children not 'return to the church' as you did as a young man, where do you think they're going to end up, ultimately? Serious question with no provocation. Thanks.

I think, I meant that you (and others) would think that we (my wife & I) chose to be passive, as opposed to the hard core fundies. I mean, no one ever talks about the Christian [rationalist] (my word). Which I believe are the silent majority of Catholics and Christians. We basically analyze the situation that is beyond our control and work around it with more passive Christian methods. Jesus never forced His will on anyone! Only people do that!

And, as to where they will end up? If they, as anyone in this world are essentially good, and acting in a Christ like manner. I'm not worried. Jesus doesn't exclude anyone from salvation. Only those who exclude themselves. And, Jesus never said to worship Him! He said to "follow" Him!

Thanks for the questions, and the compliment! Ron

Matt 11:30 "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

(June 23, 2014 at 7:47 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Have a good life, the next doesn't look so good for you.

To be fair, PS, you did word your questions in a manner that didn't exactly give off the vibe of an honest inquiry.

That being said, however, I love how he/she just couldn't resist the sanctimonious threat of fire and brimstone. On top of that, he/she dropped it like it was some sort of closing pleasantry. Classy.

This weekend someone stole my sisters car. I went outside to find her on the ground distraught. After some questioning I found out that she A. Was not hurt. B. Was distraught only because she wanted to beat the living breathing shit out of the thief. I did not feel bad for her anymore. No matter her distress, the point of her message was to hurt someone else, and I simply could not relate to wanting to hurt someone else no matter how hurt she was.

I kinda equate that situation to Christians who so politely like to tell me I'm burning in hell when I die. The message is hate.

(June 23, 2014 at 3:43 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(June 23, 2014 at 7:47 am)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Have a good life, the next doesn't look so good for you.

To be fair, PS, you did word your questions in a manner that didn't exactly give off the vibe of an honest inquiry.

That being said, however, I love how he/she just couldn't resist the sanctimonious threat of fire and brimstone. On top of that, he/she dropped it like it was some sort of closing pleasantry. Classy.

Keep in my mind, this was on top of my original thread, in which I think I was even more congenial, and only received insincere and insulting responses. So when I made the follow up thread, the one I shared here, inquiring why the original was shut down, I was already beginning to lose my patience with them.

THAT BEING SAID, I really do not find my choice of words very provoking, and if only slightly so, then only because that is my style of writing, not because I wasn't sincere in my questioning.

For example, the "drink the kool-aid" comment. I was being repeatedly told by them not to trust their words, but to ask God myself to reveal his presence. This is after I had already told them I was formerly a Christian, to which I was basically told that my former Christian faith wasn't the "real" kind. So in this context, is the idiom "drink the kool-aid" really inappropriate?

If Christians can't communicate with non-believers who possess a sliver of wit, I am not going to feel bad about it. That is their problem, not mine.

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(June 23, 2014 at 8:34 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: That's like any onlinie forum, no matter the topic or orientation.

Of course. Who wouldn't agree? It's just that I didn't break any rules and that's why I find it slightly annoying.