Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 28, 2024, 4:20 am
Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Which was first: Atheism or Religion?

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
bennyboy Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: agnostic
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation: 46
#11
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:17 am
I think this has to go down to semantics. What is the difference, for example, between superstition and religion? Where does a belief in spirits stand, or in destiny?
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#12
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:18 am
The cave man says "Ug! Show me the evidence!". He was unable to think beyond what he could sense.
Find
Reply
ManMachine Offline
It's in the trees... it's coming!
***
Religious Views: I like cheese
Posts: 1121
Threads: 53
Joined: February 5, 2013
Reputation: 15
#13
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:21 am
(June 26, 2014 at 1:40 am)Knowledge of God Wrote: If atheism was first, then religion was created by atheists.

Atheism exists as a reaction to theism (hence 'a-theism'), so religion came first. You need to create the notion of a god before the opportunity to assert they do not exist arises.

MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci

"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
Find
Reply
Esquilax Offline
A Death Star for bad arguments.
*****
Religious Views: AF's own William Lane Craig
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation: 123
#14
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:23 am
(June 26, 2014 at 4:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The cave man says "Ug! Show me the evidence!". He was unable to think beyond what he could sense.

What basis could you possibly have for determining that things are real beyond the evidence you can detect? The only other alternative is baseless thoughts in a vacuum, and how do you determine which of those conform to reality and which don't? For that matter, how do you figure out which are just wishful thinking?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#15
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:47 am
Yes you are that cave man Esq
Find
Reply
BrianSoddingBoru4 Offline
Power-Drunk Administrator
*******
Religious Views: Headology
Posts: 46128
Threads: 538
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation: 109
#16
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:49 am
(June 26, 2014 at 4:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The cave man says "Ug! Show me the evidence!". He was unable to think beyond what he could sense.

*shrug* They clearly had a sense of an afterlife, based on some of the grave goods we've found.

I doubt very much that the inability of early humans to think beyond their senses is a tenable notion. If Oog drops a gourd full of water, he senses that the ground gets wet. It isn't much of a leap for him to 'think beyond his senses' and postulate that the Great Gourd Dropper In The Sky is responsible for rain. To a point, the more primitively minded one is, the more likely one is to postulate all sorts of loopy, unsubstantiated ideas. Atheism represents a positive evolutionary development of the ability to reason, not the other way round.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Find
Reply
LastPoet Offline
Leader of the gang of jerkoffs(tm)
*****
Religious Views: L'Uomo verrà portato dalla sua creazione
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation: 125
#17
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:51 am
(June 26, 2014 at 4:21 am)ManMachine Wrote: Atheism exists as a reaction to theism (hence 'a-theism'), so religion came first. You need to create the notion of a god before the opportunity to assert they do not exist arises.

MM

Agreed. In fewer words, you have to see bullshit to call it.
Find
Reply
Esquilax Offline
A Death Star for bad arguments.
*****
Religious Views: AF's own William Lane Craig
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation: 123
#18
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 4:58 am
(June 26, 2014 at 4:47 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes you are that cave man Esq

So you don't use evidence or observations of the world in your determination that god exists? You just decide that he exists, and then... that's it? No confirmation, no basis for the thought? You just think it, and therefore it is so?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#19
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 5:09 am
(June 26, 2014 at 4:49 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 26, 2014 at 4:18 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The cave man says "Ug! Show me the evidence!". He was unable to think beyond what he could sense.

*shrug* They clearly had a sense of an afterlife, based on some of the grave goods we've found.

I doubt very much that the inability of early humans to think beyond their senses is a tenable notion. If Oog drops a gourd full of water, he senses that the ground gets wet. It isn't much of a leap for him to 'think beyond his senses' and postulate that the Great Gourd Dropper In The Sky is responsible for rain. To a point, the more primitively minded one is, the more likely one is to postulate all sorts of loopy, unsubstantiated ideas. Atheism represents a positive evolutionary development of the ability to reason, not the other way round.

Boru

The term is a loose characterisation of course. What you're describing are the beginnings of rationalisation.
Find
Reply
Bad Wolf Offline
Compulsive procrastinator
****
Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope?
Posts: 3022
Threads: 34
Joined: May 11, 2013
Reputation: 30
#20
RE: Which was first: Atheism or Religion?
June 26, 2014 at 5:30 am
Oh frodo is being an asshole on another thread! What a surprise!
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Which was first: Atheism or Religion?

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Do Humans Have Compulsary Will? Which best describes your take on 'will'? Whateverist 100 13290 June 11, 2015 at 8:29 am
Last Post: Whateverist
  Which Quantum Mechanical Interpretation to you Like/Prefer? MindForgedManacle 16 4750 January 11, 2014 at 3:17 pm
Last Post: Theo Zacharias
  That which you do not understand is infinity... grassdoctor 7 1855 November 4, 2013 at 10:06 am
Last Post: Angrboda



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)