(July 5, 2014 at 4:07 pm)Losty Wrote: Lets say I'm an abused, sexually insecure muslim woman who is coerced by my husband into wearing a niquab so nobody else gets to see me. That's what this indoctrination has done to me, I feel downtrodden, dis-empowered. Then the government, passes a law which means not only that my husband can't force me to wear the thing any more, but I cannot even wear it on my own free will.

He's probably not going to be any less abusive. At best he'll be suspicious and distrustful when I'm out. At worst he'll try to stop me leaving the house. The law alone won't stop him being an abusive bastard or me being oppressed. The law may however, give me hope. I can leave the oppression of this religion and this marriage and I have an entire nation at my back. I have my government making a stand for me, telling me I don't have to be oppressed.

Some courts are so prejudiced against Muslims that you would get a conviction of your hypothetical husband right away. And France didn't ban the hijab, that can still be worn. I don't think there is even a religious obligation to wear burkas or niqabs, if it's for modesty you can be modest without wearing those.

I was just making an example that laws like these empower otherwise disempowered women. They say listen bae, if you want to stand up and walk out and do your thing then we've got your back. I think that's a huge deal.

(July 5, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Losty Wrote: I was just making an example that laws like these empower otherwise disempowered women. They say listen bae, if you want to stand up and walk out and do your thing then we've got your back. I think that's a huge deal.

That's why people shouldn't complain against these bans.

(July 5, 2014 at 4:07 pm)Losty Wrote: Lets say I'm an abused, sexually insecure muslim woman who is coerced by my husband into wearing a niquab so nobody else gets to see me. That's what this indoctrination has done to me, I feel downtrodden, dis-empowered. Then the government, passes a law which means not only that my husband can't force me to wear the thing any more, but I cannot even wear it on my own free will.

He's probably not going to be any less abusive. At best he'll be suspicious and distrustful when I'm out. At worst he'll try to stop me leaving the house. The law alone won't stop him being an abusive bastard or me being oppressed. The law may however, give me hope. I can leave the oppression of this religion and this marriage and I have an entire nation at my back. I have my government making a stand for me, telling me I don't have to be oppressed.

I don't see how the ban would make you feel more able to leave the religion... The government is telling you you can't do something, really don't see that as empowerment. It's just a different bunch of people trying to make your decision for you.

Now legislation to make divorce in the case of abuse, physical or otherwise, THAT would empower you

(July 4, 2014 at 10:08 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: No, I'm not. If you'd do me the favor of rereading my posts, you'll see that my support for this is based on the fact that criminals of all stripes use masks when carrying out robberies, and that I find banning those masks justified.

This point has been made by various people here and it just doesn't hold up. You think French bank robbers won't be wearing masks any more?

Quote:But it seems to be more prevalent in Muslim societies... why?...

Tiny dick syndrome?

Feeling oppressed? There's an app for that. Use the Biblical cure. Hammer a tent peg in the head of the oppressor when he's sleeping.

(July 5, 2014 at 7:36 pm)davidMC1982 Wrote:

(July 4, 2014 at 10:08 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: No, I'm not. If you'd do me the favor of rereading my posts, you'll see that my support for this is based on the fact that criminals of all stripes use masks when carrying out robberies, and that I find banning those masks justified.

This point has been made by various people here and it just doesn't hold up. You think French bank robbers won't be wearing masks any more?

Can see the scene in the smoky cellar.

"Well **** if we are not allowed to wear masks without breaking the law this heist is a bust. Let's just not bother! "

(July 5, 2014 at 8:07 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:But it seems to be more prevalent in Muslim societies... why?...

Tiny dick syndrome?

Most Muslim males are homosexual?

(July 5, 2014 at 7:36 pm)davidMC1982 Wrote: This point has been made by various people here and it just doesn't hold up. You think French bank robbers won't be wearing masks any more?

Of course some still will. Do you think any legal proscription stops the crime it proscribes? Murders still happen. Are you telling me that laws against murder shouldn't be on the books?

No, the law makes it possible to stop an incipient incident, because after all, the criminal cannot wear the covering from home, and donning it in view of others (say, in the men's room, or in an alleyway) will immediately denote the wearer as someone intent on a crime.

Let's turn this around: do you think a person has a right to privacy in the public sphere? If so, why?

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(July 6, 2014 at 3:42 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote:

(July 5, 2014 at 7:36 pm)davidMC1982 Wrote: This point has been made by various people here and it just doesn't hold up. You think French bank robbers won't be wearing masks any more?

Can see the scene in the smoky cellar.

"Well **** if we are not allowed to wear masks without breaking the law this heist is a bust. Let's just not bother! "

See my above point to rebut this clever, but vapid, reply.