Hey guys, just had a conversation about something on which I'd like your input.

The majority of people that I know and hang out with would describe themselves as a 'skeptic' as a positive thing, and use it as a label as important to them as the label "Christian" might be to others. However, so many times I've noticed my friends and others who self-define as a skeptic being distinctly un-skeptical about a ton of issues. The most common gap in skepticism I see is in regards to Eastern or alternative medicine, like acupuncture or balance wristbands or homeopathy and shit like that, even things as simple as buying into an infomercial about a miracle pill* sets off my eyebrow-raise-meter. I wouldn't deign to label someone as a 'true skeptic' or anything silly like that, and I'm sure I could be more skeptical about a lot of things, but buying into blatantly obvious woo and snake oil like that really grinds on me when people describe themselves as being skeptical and secular.

Do you guys share this (possibly unjustified) irritation with anyone you know? Doesn't even have to be the whole alternative medicine bullshit, could be just about anything.

Additionally, do you think that skepticism, properly applied, leads necessarily to atheism?

Thanks!

Nope. It depends on your experiences and the information you have. I could see it as easily leading to agnostic theism or deism, or even Christian Lite, if it's 'lite' enough. I have trouble seeing how skepticism could be reconciled with any form of fundamentalism, though.

(July 8, 2014 at 9:57 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Nope. It depends on your experiences and the information you have. I could see it as easily leading to agnostic theism or deism, or even Christian Lite, if it's 'lite' enough. I have trouble seeing how skepticism could be reconciled with any form of fundamentalism, though.

I'm kinda on the fence about it myself. If skepticism is withholding belief in something as true without sufficient evidence, then I don't see how anyone could take any religious doctrine as true. But, on the other hand, there are tons of people that genuinely and honestly believe they have personally seen direct evidence or had direct experiences with their God(s), so I guess that's evidence for them. I dunno.

Christian creationists utilize far different criteria for evidence and veracity when considering evolution as compared to how they view their faith.

Quote:Do you guys share this (possibly unjustified) irritation with anyone you know? Doesn't even have to be the whole alternative medicine bullshit, could be just about anything.

-Yup.

Quote:Additionally, do you think that skepticism, properly applied, leads necessarily to atheism?

-That would seem to be the case. The god proposition doesn't seem to have been crafted with an eye towards surviving skeptical inquiry, I blame the creators imaginations.

(July 8, 2014 at 9:51 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The most common gap in skepticism I see is in regards to Eastern or alternative medicine, like acupuncture

I had acupuncture in the physiotherapy department of a National Health hospital some years ago. I found this on the website for NHS careers - Complementary and alternative medicine (CAM)

Quote:There are numerous complementary and alternative medicines (CAM) available in the UK. Some of these therapies have been known to help alleviate the symptoms of certain illnesses, in cases where orthodox medicine does not seem to have offered a complete solution.

The government is committed to developing a NHS which is responsive to the needs and wishes of patients and which enables patients to play an active role in managing their health conditions. Complementary therapies are clearly attractive to a number of patients, and may feature in a range of services that local NHS organisations provide. The most commonly used therapies are:

acupuncture
aromatherapy
chiropractic
homeopathy
massage
osteopathy
clinical hypnotherapy

(July 8, 2014 at 3:33 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(July 8, 2014 at 9:51 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The most common gap in skepticism I see is in regards to Eastern or alternative medicine, like acupuncture

I had acupuncture in the physiotherapy department of a National Health hospital some years ago. I found this on the website for NHS careers - Complementary and alternative medicine (CAM)

Quote:There are numerous complementary and alternative medicines (CAM) available in the UK. Some of these therapies have been known to help alleviate the symptoms of certain illnesses, in cases where orthodox medicine does not seem to have offered a complete solution.

The government is committed to developing a NHS which is responsive to the needs and wishes of patients and which enables patients to play an active role in managing their health conditions. Complementary therapies are clearly attractive to a number of patients, and may feature in a range of services that local NHS organisations provide. The most commonly used therapies are:

acupuncture
aromatherapy
chiropractic
homeopathy
massage
osteopathy
clinical hypnotherapy

That's pretty surprising. And forgive my ignorance of the healthcare system in the UK, but if it's offered by the NHS, does that mean that your tax money is being used to promote/administer these kinds of 'treatments'?

There's so much bullshit in the world that one has to pick one's fights.

(July 8, 2014 at 9:51 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Hey guys, just had a conversation about something on which I'd like your input.

The majority of people that I know and hang out with would describe themselves as a 'skeptic' as a positive thing, and use it as a label as important to them as the label "Christian" might be to others. However, so many times I've noticed my friends and others who self-define as a skeptic being distinctly un-skeptical about a ton of issues. The most common gap in skepticism I see is in regards to Eastern or alternative medicine, like acupuncture or balance wristbands or homeopathy and shit like that, even things as simple as buying into an infomercial about a miracle pill* sets off my eyebrow-raise-meter. I wouldn't deign to label someone as a 'true skeptic' or anything silly like that, and I'm sure I could be more skeptical about a lot of things, but buying into blatantly obvious woo and snake oil like that really grinds on me when people describe themselves as being skeptical and secular.

Do you guys share this (possibly unjustified) irritation with anyone you know? Doesn't even have to be the whole alternative medicine bullshit, could be just about anything.

Additionally, do you think that skepticism, properly applied, leads necessarily to atheism?

Thanks!

It's simple, they're not true skeptics, they're beginner skeptics, just children who are skeptical of Santa but believe in a monster under their bed. I mean, I always tell people I'm skeptical of their bullshit ideas when they come up and they will say without fail "I'm skeptical too"... just not about these pet topics. And when given evidence, they show anything but skepticism, but instead show dogmatic stubbornness to some of these pseudo-science topics.

(July 8, 2014 at 9:51 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Hey guys, just had a conversation about something on which I'd like your input.

The majority of people that I know and hang out with would describe themselves as a 'skeptic' as a positive thing, and use it as a label as important to them as the label "Christian" might be to others. However, so many times I've noticed my friends and others who self-define as a skeptic being distinctly un-skeptical about a ton of issues. The most common gap in skepticism I see is in regards to Eastern or alternative medicine, like acupuncture or balance wristbands or homeopathy and shit like that, even things as simple as buying into an infomercial about a miracle pill* sets off my eyebrow-raise-meter. I wouldn't deign to label someone as a 'true skeptic' or anything silly like that, and I'm sure I could be more skeptical about a lot of things, but buying into blatantly obvious woo and snake oil like that really grinds on me when people describe themselves as being skeptical and secular.

Do you guys share this (possibly unjustified) irritation with anyone you know? Doesn't even have to be the whole alternative medicine bullshit, could be just about anything.

Additionally, do you think that skepticism, properly applied, leads necessarily to atheism?

Thanks!

I'm not very informed about Eastern medicine but I think skepticism is warranted for any medicine, even practitioners in the West, when the results are so often unpredictable and effect each person quite differently, not to mention we don't really understand certain variables such as the Placebo effect. Add hefty profits and you have the ingredients for a politically protected scam on a massive scale, and that's what I largely take psychiatry to be. I would probably encourage a person towards Eastern medicine before I'd advise them to take a plethora of pills that leave them chemically broken and shackled.

As to skepticism and atheism, I can't see any logical consistency between skepticism and faith in the existence of Superman, er, God, so yes, I'd say one naturally leads to the other.