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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:11 am
(July 31, 2014 at 9:10 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 9:03 am)Losty Wrote: Obviously everything would be up to god if he existed. I am asking for your personal opinion. My personal opinion is already explained - God left ambiguity in order to avoid the situation in the first place.
And why isn't that ambiguity you argue merely a sign that god doesn't exist? It's ambiguous after all
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:14 am
(July 31, 2014 at 9:05 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Someone's own conscience is supposed to reveal the Christian God to them? No.
Quote:And you really didn't answer my question again.
You don't ask good questions.
Quote:If someone was never exposed to Christianity and hadn't accepted Jesus, what happens to them?
They're judged according to their own judgment, and found guilty. If that person had responded suitably to the revelation received, whether by creation, the conscience or other means, they would be forgiven. This would vary by individual and so, no, I'm not going to give you an exhaustive list of the possibilities.
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:16 am
(July 31, 2014 at 8:51 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 8:45 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Well you said that everyone has been exposed to some truth of God in creation. What truth is that? It's not that Jesus is Lord, but rather that there is a creator god.
Prove it then.
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:18 am
(July 31, 2014 at 9:14 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 9:05 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Someone's own conscience is supposed to reveal the Christian God to them? No.
Quote:And you really didn't answer my question again.
You don't ask good questions.
Quote:If someone was never exposed to Christianity and hadn't accepted Jesus, what happens to them?
They're judged according to their own judgment, and found guilty. If that person had responded suitably to the revelation received, whether by creation, the conscience or other means, they would be forgiven. This would vary by individual and so, no, I'm not going to give you an exhaustive list of the possibilities.
Well I'm glad you know they would be found guilty. And yet again you're ignoring the important part of my question. They haven't accepted Jesus because they've never been exposed to him, and just looking at creation or their conscience hasn't 'revealed' the Christian god to them.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:20 am
(July 31, 2014 at 8:56 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 8:51 am)jesus_wept Wrote: I'm a bit confused by this non-answer. Are you saying I'm correct and the reason it's not spelt out clearer is to stop Christians doing their children a favour? I'm saying that you can't trick god, but some people would try as you suggest. It's not like the doctrine is something outside of god to which he's bound, and such people would have found a loophole for their children.
But it's not a loop hole or a trick if all children go to heaven. It's just the way it is, according to what you said earlier.
Kill your child, he goes to heaven, repent and seek forgiveness from Jesus and you'll go to heaven with them, so everyone is a winner.
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:22 am
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2014 at 9:44 am by Losty.)
(July 31, 2014 at 9:10 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 9:03 am)Losty Wrote: Obviously everything would be up to god if he existed. I am asking for your personal opinion. My personal opinion is already explained - God left ambiguity in order to avoid the situation in the first place.
Well I am sure he didn't succeed. There has to be someone who has tried this. You didn't actually give an opinion on the thing I asked about by the way.
(July 31, 2014 at 9:14 am)alpha male Wrote: They're judged according to their own judgment, and found guilty. If that person had responded suitably to the revelation received, whether by creation, the conscience or other means, they would be forgiven. This would vary by individual and so, no, I'm not going to give you an exhaustive list of the possibilities.
Your god sounds a lot like my ex husband. Never quite revealing what he wants and then having no mercy when you fail to figure it out for yourself.
(July 31, 2014 at 9:20 am)jesus_wept Wrote: But it's not a loop hole or a trick if all children go to heaven. It's just the way it is, according to what you said earlier.
Kill your child, he goes to heaven, repent and seek forgiveness from Jesus and you'll go to heaven with them, so everyone is a winner.
Christianity is ambiguous for a reason. It does not wish to allow for loopholes that would leave any person believing that they're innocent. It's so much easier to scare people into submission when they believe that they a) need your love for survival, and b) are undeserving of that love.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
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Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:31 am
(July 31, 2014 at 9:20 am)jesus_wept Wrote: But it's not a loop hole or a trick if all children go to heaven. It's just the way it is, according to what you said earlier.
Kill your child, he goes to heaven, repent and seek forgiveness from Jesus and you'll go to heaven with them, so everyone is a winner. And as I further explained, God can alter it as he sees fit if people try to use it as a loophole.
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:33 am
(July 31, 2014 at 9:31 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 9:20 am)jesus_wept Wrote: But it's not a loop hole or a trick if all children go to heaven. It's just the way it is, according to what you said earlier.
Kill your child, he goes to heaven, repent and seek forgiveness from Jesus and you'll go to heaven with them, so everyone is a winner. And as I further explained, God can alter it as he sees fit if people try to use it as a loophole.
In which case your claim that all children go to heaven earlier was false.
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:33 am
(July 31, 2014 at 9:31 am)alpha male Wrote: (July 31, 2014 at 9:20 am)jesus_wept Wrote: But it's not a loop hole or a trick if all children go to heaven. It's just the way it is, according to what you said earlier.
Kill your child, he goes to heaven, repent and seek forgiveness from Jesus and you'll go to heaven with them, so everyone is a winner. And as I further explained, God can alter it as he sees fit if people try to use it as a loophole.
Why didn't you just start off saying "God can do whatever he wants with the rules whenever he wants for whatever reason he wants" and end the argument?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: God's Nature and character
July 31, 2014 at 9:44 am
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2014 at 9:45 am by John V.)
(July 31, 2014 at 9:33 am)jesus_wept Wrote: In which case your claim that all children go to heaven earlier was false. The children in the passages under discussion were not killed by parents thinking they were doing the children a favor. If you modify the situation, I may need to modify my position as well. How about, all children go to heaven unless killed by someone believing it will send them to heaven, in which case god decides as he sees fit.
(July 31, 2014 at 9:33 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Why didn't you just start off saying "God can do whatever he wants with the rules whenever he wants for whatever reason he wants" and end the argument? Because the amount of information I gave was adequate for the situation at hand, which did not involve parents killing their children in the belief it will send them to heaven. If you guys change the scenario, then yes, I may need to modify my positions.
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