Out of the 3 abrahamic religions, islam is the one that most enforces the barbaric, hateful sexist stuff. That's why, as a woman, they are the religion that is the most threat to my safety, freedom and happiness. They enforce it on nonbelievers and believers alike, right up to the extreme of death sentences for unapproved but nonharmful sexual behaviour. I would have been killed many times over by followers of that religion for things that have never harmed anyone.

Mo3 is probably cursing the fact that modern, free women can read and write.

Tell us little girls how wonderful it is to be chattel, Mo3...

Quote:1. Finding the most liberal sounding bits of the koran, and then taking the most liberal possible interpretation of them. Rather shockingly, this still supports wife-beating.

there is nothing called liberal possible interpretation but there is something called u cant take a part from the Quran and forget about the rest and ignore the interpretation of muhammed(pbuh) himself or his companions if someone start saying his own opinion and interpretation of the Quran and then believe it and start following it and ignoring a lot of Quran and sunnah thats is called the extremest and they are minority(those are the ppl u see in tv)

Quote:Mo3 and the Taliban are both muslims. If we want to evaluate islam, with regard to, say, its attitudes towards women, we need to consider both the liberal islam of people like mo3 and the brutal fundamentalist islam of the Taliban. Plus everything in between. And the picture that emerges is not good.

i agree with u but i just want to add that they are minority if u want to know if they are right or not compare what they are doing with the history of islam and also dont judge islam by what some muslims are doing and u r choosing a ppl who even lack education if some of their scholars says something they follow without thinking(search about what muslim scholars say about what bin laden did)

(May 30, 2010 at 4:43 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

(May 30, 2010 at 4:28 am)leo-rcc Wrote:

(May 29, 2010 at 8:02 pm)AtheistPhil Wrote:

(May 29, 2010 at 7:51 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: what do u mean by other beliefs?

Sunni, Shi'a, Ahmadiyya, Sufism, Salafi just to name a few...

These variations within Islam are not different beliefs, they deal with succession after Mohammad's death, and which traditions to follow. You can say about Islam what you want, but their fractions are remarkably more consistent than Christianity.

thnx

It's funny that you did not tell leo-rcc that even though you praised his response, you yourself consider the Ahmadiyya as not real muslims and are against that particular denomination.

Quote:i dont like to answer by videos but that will b easier for u to understand this verse

No, the point is that just like any other religion this stuff is written in such a way that one can make ANY interpretation to it and still be able to point at it and say " SEE....God said I'm right." It's why some imams can claim it is religion of "peace" while others encourage suicide bombers all gleefully waving their holy book over their heads. This is all about marketing to a specific audience by preachers who are far more interested in their own power than anything else.

Why do you think there are 3 main forms of Judaism (and a shitload of minor forms) and 33,000+ variants of xtianity? Why would the sunni's rather kill the shias and the wahabis rather kill everyone?
Because men take this poorly written bullshit and pronounce themselves god's gift to the fucking world who will tell everyone else what it means. They are con artists and religious assholes who listen to them are sheep waiting to be fleeced.

(May 30, 2010 at 8:31 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

Quote:Mo3 and the Taliban are both muslims. If we want to evaluate islam, with regard to, say, its attitudes towards women, we need to consider both the liberal islam of people like mo3 and the brutal fundamentalist islam of the Taliban. Plus everything in between. And the picture that emerges is not good.

i agree with u but i just want to add that they are minority if u want to know if they are right or not compare what they are doing with the history of islam and also dont judge islam by what some muslims are doing and u r choosing a ppl who even lack education if some of their scholars says something they follow without thinking(search about what muslim scholars say about what bin laden did)

The nature of religion is such that it is impossible to falsify or verify any specific religious interpretation with religion itself. Religion provides no means to do so since there is no shared mechanism to conclusively verify or falsify the various claims. At the core of every religion are unfalsifiable claims. Anybody can start his own religion today, based on quran or any text you choose and start interpreting away. It does not help to suggest, as you do, to verify the different interpretations of the quran with the history of islam because the history of religious interpretation says nothing on intrinsic truth. Just as the history of catholicism is not a case for the truth of catholicism. In fact history shows that right from the start controversy on interpretations has been around.

The more I learn about Islam the less I like it.

(May 30, 2010 at 5:16 am)Purple Rabbit Wrote:

(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 6-covering her body(hijab):

Why should only one of the sexes cover her body if men and women have equal rights?

the man also have to cover his body but not the same parts(from stomach to knees)
and also the woman body is different than a man

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Quote:The nature of religion is such that it is impossible to falsify or verify any specific religious interpretation with religion itself. Religion provides no means to do so since there is no shared mechanism to conclusively verify or falsify the various claims. At the core of every religion are unfalsifiable claims. Anybody can start his own religion today, based on quran or any text you choose and start interpreting away. It does not help to suggest, as you do, to verify the different interpretations of the quran with the history of islam because the history of religious interpretation says nothing on intrinsic truth. Just as the history of catholicism is not a case for the truth of catholicism. In fact history shows that right from the start controversy on interpretations has been around.

i disagree with u in this what anyone do is taking a text out of the Quran and ignoring others so they can do what they want to do these people power is in talking to non educated persons that cant even read or write as a 5 year old boy can answer them
and also u can use ur mind i myself when i want to know something i search in the Quran first and if i didnt understand i see the interpretation of scholars i trust if i read some interpretation for scholars i dont know i dont follow it blindly i just think about it(anyway we have interpretation from muhammed (pbuh) and from his closest companions and thats what u can trust