Lyndon Lamborn, another ex-Mormon who has written a book ) describes the Mormon truth test thus:

Quote:Read and study and contemplate the issue. Approach God in prayer with real intent, having faith, and then what you feel to be true by the influence of the Holy Ghost. If you do this, you will feel either a burning in the bosom or other unique feeling is unequivocal confirmation of the truth, or a 'stupor of thought' or feeling of confusion and you will know that the idea or concept is false. Using the recipe is the method used to determine the truth of all things in Mormonism.

Standing For Something More: The Excommunication of Lyndon Lamborn page 19.

He points out that the basic method for determining the truth is central to most religions. Read, study, look within, and wait for the answer---a feeling of certainty will ensue. And the amazing thing is that for most people, a feeling of certainty does ensue. Sometimes a feeling of such certainty that they are willing to martyr themselves in it's name.

The problem is of course that this method for obtaining the truth frequently produces demonstrably wrong answers. Also, not surprisingly Christians look within and find Christian answers, Hindus look within and fine Hindu answers, Muslims look within and find Muslim answers, and so on. It works well with belief in ESP, and ghosts too, not to mention past lives.

And since the truth test produces certainty, no outside facts or contradictions are entertained. Certainty (faith) has been achieved.

Lamborn goes on to state the circular reasoning that often results when Mormonism itself is subjected to the truth test:

Quote:Q. How do you know The Book of Mormon is historically true and accurate?

A. I have received witness of its truthfulness for the Holy Ghost.

Q. How do you know that this witness form the Holy Ghost is certain and reliable?

A. It is promised in the Book of Mormon.

page 25.

I used Lambon and the Book of Mormon, rather than fundamentalist Christians and The Bible because this reasoning is more common with the Bible. The book believed in differs, but the process is the same.

It's the illusion of certainty that is dangerous.

I'll have to add that book to the Mormon ones on my reading list.

I recently read Leaving The Saints which had some pretty crazy stuff in it.

Quote:Q. How do you know The Book of Mormon is historically true and accurate?

A. I have received witness of its truthfulness for the Holy Ghost.

Q. How do you know that this witness form the Holy Ghost is certain and reliable?

A. It is promised in the Book of Mormon.

Yup.



SS-DD


Same Shit - Different Denomination

(August 10, 2014 at 5:00 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: I'll have to add that book to the Mormon ones on my reading list.

I recently read Leaving The Saints which had some pretty crazy stuff in it.

Mormons believe some pretty crazy stuff. But the only thing that makes it look crazier to me than what other religions believe is the recent vintage. It's so much easier to point out the historical flaws.

Lamborn's book doesn't spend much time on the crazy. He's interested in three things: contradictions with the real world; the negative affect that Mormonism has on families; the secretiveness and deceptions of the church authorities.

(August 10, 2014 at 8:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Lamborn's book doesn't spend much time on the crazy. He's interested in three things: contradictions with the real world; the negative affect that Mormonism has on families; the secretiveness and deceptions of the church authorities.

Leaving the Saints didn't focus on the crazy beliefs much, it was more the first-person account of how the author deconverted and her experiences because she is the daughter of a very well known Mormon *cough* scholar *cough cough* :p Phone taps, threatening phone calls, threats to her job, confronting family about certain circumstances, etc.

I've found that I don't especially care for books on "How [so-and-so] became an atheist" but I love reading ones about people deconverting from their religions. Perhaps because it's so foreign to me to be that invested in a belief that it's life-altering to step away from it.

Those who have had genuine mystical experiences, like me, will tell you that such life changing events also contains within them their own self-evident veracity.

And is the measure of the genuineness of other people's mystical experiences whether they contradict yours or not?

(August 11, 2014 at 2:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Those who have had genuine mystical experiences, like me, will tell you that such life changing events also contains within them their own self-evident veracity.

as opposed to non-genuine mystical experiences I suppose.

How does one distinguish the genuine from the non-genuine?

And when did fervency of belief become a standard of veracity?

(August 11, 2014 at 2:04 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Those who have had genuine mystical experiences, like me, will tell you that such life changing events also contains within them their own self-evident veracity.

Aren't brain chemicals lovely

(August 11, 2014 at 2:08 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: And is the measure of the genuineness of other people's mystical experiences whether they contradict yours or not?

Brilliant!

(August 11, 2014 at 2:08 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: And is the measure of the genuineness of other people's mystical experiences whether they contradict yours or not?

They rarely do because they are ineffable.