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August 20, 2014 at 8:56 am (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 9:10 am by Brian37.)
Everyone reading this on issues of economics and and even good use of logic and defense of science. Do not think short term. If anyone here reading this thinks it is all doom and gloom, you are thinking short term. You look at the ignorance of our species thousands of years ago, we still progressed. Just with atheists, you look where our voice was in 01 compared to how big it is now, there really is a huge difference. You do not have to own a website, or be rich or famous. Those at the top of a movement are the few and stand on the bulk of the rest of us that make progress possible.
Now having said that, it is also important to not try to set up utopias ourselves. We are still a diverse species and even among liberal theists or liberal atheists we still are individuals and will not agree all the time. Everything boils down to economics and education. We still have to accept that we are diverse and that means humans will have different economic goals. It is ok to expect the gap not to get too lopsided, but it is unreasonable to expect everyone to make the same pay.
We do not need to be like the tea party suggesting a Che revolution or replace our open market. It simply needs to be purged of greed. Every single post counts. I am not a fan of idiots who think "what are you doing other than posting"? I can tell you that my current mindset and motivation was shaped, not by books or rich famous atheists, but merely reading the posts of other atheists. Every post counts, every voice counts. It wont happen over night but it cant happen if we do nothing at all.
(August 20, 2014 at 9:29 am)czúzyt ylgájla Wrote: The tea party, weird name for a party. At least they don't call themselves people's democratic salvation party
Well the point of that is, some people want to solve economic issues by taking the other extreme. Tea party morons think no taxes and no regulation and all government is evil will work. In rightfully combating such absurdities is saying "END THE PRIVATE SECTOR" as if that were remotely possible which it is not.
The Che supporter morons forget that those tactics are nothing more than shifting wealth from people to the party. It does not solve issues of abuse of power. You simply replace one abuser with another. One monopoly for another.
(August 20, 2014 at 9:29 am)czúzyt ylgájla Wrote: The tea party, weird name for a party. At least they don't call themselves people's democratic salvation party
They take it from America's history. Have you heard of the event known as the "Boston Tea Party"? It was a rather "patriotic" event where goods for trade were sabotaged in protest of Great Britain's policies at the time.
(August 20, 2014 at 9:39 am)Brian37 Wrote:
(August 20, 2014 at 9:29 am)czúzyt ylgájla Wrote: The tea party, weird name for a party. At least they don't call themselves people's democratic salvation party
Well the point of that is, some people want to solve economic issues by taking the other extreme. Tea party morons think no taxes and no regulation and all government is evil will work. In rightfully combating such absurdities is saying "END THE PRIVATE SECTOR" as if that were remotely possible which it is not.
The Che supporter morons forget that those tactics are nothing more than shifting wealth from people to the party. It does not solve issues of abuse of power. You simply replace one abuser with another. One monopoly for another.
Is the only argument you have calling someone a "moron"? I don't get why people feel the need to resort to general ad-hom when it comes to politics and economic arguments. Your side is not "right", their side is not "wrong". Make an argument without taking that pretense or insulting their intelligence out of hand, and I'll listen.
August 20, 2014 at 10:11 am (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 10:13 am by Whateverist.)
(August 20, 2014 at 9:29 am)czúzyt ylgájla Wrote: The tea party, weird name for a party.
I'm pretty sure they prefer to be called "tea-baggers".
(August 20, 2014 at 10:11 am)Endo Wrote: Is the only argument you have calling someone a "moron"? I don't get why people feel the need to resort to general ad-hom when it comes to politics and economic arguments. Your side is not "right", their side is not "wrong". Make an argument without taking that pretense or insulting their intelligence out of hand, and I'll listen.
I know, only a moron thinks calling someone a moron is persuasive.
August 20, 2014 at 10:29 am (This post was last modified: August 20, 2014 at 10:31 am by DramaQueen.)
In Libya, we only learned about the middle east in history class (propaganda, the west are evil. arab Muslims are perfect). Of course I'm talking about what was there before the war.
We weren't taught about the Holocaust for example.
And it was very biased about the Muslim conquests and stuff like that.
(August 20, 2014 at 9:29 am)czúzyt ylgájla Wrote: The tea party, weird name for a party. At least they don't call themselves people's democratic salvation party
They take it from America's history. Have you heard of the event known as the "Boston Tea Party"? It was a rather "patriotic" event where goods for trade were sabotaged in protest of Great Britain's policies at the time.
(August 20, 2014 at 9:39 am)Brian37 Wrote:
Well the point of that is, some people want to solve economic issues by taking the other extreme. Tea party morons think no taxes and no regulation and all government is evil will work. In rightfully combating such absurdities is saying "END THE PRIVATE SECTOR" as if that were remotely possible which it is not.
The Che supporter morons forget that those tactics are nothing more than shifting wealth from people to the party. It does not solve issues of abuse of power. You simply replace one abuser with another. One monopoly for another.
Is the only argument you have calling someone a "moron"? I don't get why people feel the need to resort to general ad-hom when it comes to politics and economic arguments. Your side is not "right", their side is not "wrong". Make an argument without taking that pretense or insulting their intelligence out of hand, and I'll listen.
Good, because I don't like talking to people who think that being called names is the worst thing in the world that can happen to them. I think Christians being murdered by Isis or gays in Iran have a right to bitch. "Moron" does not qualify as murder or oppression.
Now I think "moron" is an apt description of someone who thinks that any tax is bad and government is always bad. I also think "moron" fits anyone who thinks you can rid 7 billion people of the desire of wanting to own things or businesses.
And even with atheists, I will call them morons too if they think on a planet of diverse species that projecting their utopia will work either.
If you are more concerned with being offended than the actual physical violence and oppression of others, then your priorities are way out of whack.
(August 20, 2014 at 10:11 am)Endo Wrote: They take it from America's history. Have you heard of the event known as the "Boston Tea Party"? It was a rather "patriotic" event where goods for trade were sabotaged in protest of Great Britain's policies at the time.
Is the only argument you have calling someone a "moron"? I don't get why people feel the need to resort to general ad-hom when it comes to politics and economic arguments. Your side is not "right", their side is not "wrong". Make an argument without taking that pretense or insulting their intelligence out of hand, and I'll listen.
Good, because I don't like talking to people who think that being called names is the worst thing in the world that can happen to them. I think Christians being murdered by Isis or gays in Iran have a right to bitch. "Moron" does not qualify as murder or oppression.
Now I think "moron" is an apt description of someone who thinks that any tax is bad and government is always bad. I also think "moron" fits anyone who thinks you can rid 7 billion people of the desire of wanting to own things or businesses.
And even with atheists, I will call them morons too if they think on a planet of diverse species that projecting their utopia will work either.
If you are more concerned with being offended than the actual physical violence and oppression of others, then your priorities are way out of whack.
Well, I DO think that (most) taxes are bad, by definition. I don't see how it's moral for a group to have the power to force a person to give up SIGNIFICANT portions of their income. "Gee, this is a nice life you've got here, it would be a shame if someone were to accuse you of some crime and fuck you over for the rest of your life." Thugs < Mafia < Government. When America started out, it was essentially an experiment in Minarchism, "How small can we make a government?", and yet it still ended up like this, one of the largest governments in the world, with middle-of the road tax-revenue/GDP rates [Wikipedia].
"Taxes" make "Government" run, but why does "Government" have to run and regulate EVERYTHING with very little input from "us"? People should be allowed to DONATE to their "Government" instead of having it extorted from them, and should be able to specify WHERE their money goes.
At this point, I'm one of those
(August 16, 2014 at 8:59 am)Brian37 Wrote:
The use of the word "robbery" is bullshit. I have seen bar fights and fights as a teen between white people, where police show up and no one dies. I worked at a 7-11 and saw WHITE PEOPLE shoplift. One WHITE GUY stole several cartons of cigarettes and got physical with our store manager while trying to escape.
I did stupid shit when I was a teen myself. I drank beer, smoked pot, and even in college saw plenty of physical confrontations and no one died. I even stupidly smashed private property for fun. If I had been caught I would have deserved to be punished but death?
No matter what you saw on that tape, it still does not justify shooting an unarmed person after they put their hands up That was shoplifting, and that shove, if done by a white person, wouldn't have even been called felony assault.
The fact remains that blacks on average will be judged more harshly for the same similar actions than whites. I have seen far worse done by whites than what you see on that video.
Now here is the truth, if we as a collective society don't want it to be about race, then we as a society should fact it is a race issue. There is a disparity in how minorities are economically impacted and viewed by law enforcement . Blacks do have to worry about being black in public. If anyone thinks they only have themselves to blame they are assholes and are ignoring our nation's history of institutionalized deep seeded bigotry.
Race is where republicans, and the rich want the conversation to be. It is also where the gun industry wants the conversation to be. Maintain the economic disparity between the top and bottom, you can gett hurting white and poor republicans to point the finger at blacks instead of pointing it at the right enemy, greedy assholes pitting us against each other.
Like I have said, as a teen and young adult, seeing my white friends do far worse, to know that this video is bullshit and is merely race baiting and still would not excuse the cop from murdering an unarmed teen.
Now the other aspect of this is, if you rightfully recoil at the overly armed police AND I AGREE, that is also a product of big industry writing law for us so they do what they want regardless of how it harms the rest of us. You cannot have it both ways. You cant have a free for all market where the public is armed to the teeth then stupidly expect law enforcement not to be able to be safe. If they have to constantly fear an armed society, they are going to be trained to fear the worst and assume the worst. If we do not want that then we have to consider ourselves the AMOUNT of guns floating around.
I am sick of people blaming blacks and even any poor person in general. I am sick of republicans and libertarians and
Ayn Rand assholes
claiming that "get government out of the way" helps. None of our social ills can be fixed by allowing one class of people write laws while blaming everyone else for the flood of money they pump into politics to pit working people against each other.
I am also tired of quoting RICH people and companies that AGREE WITH ME. The bottom line is that this kid did not deserve to die. The only way to take race out of the issue is to fight the real enemy, economic disparity, and that is affecting more and more white middle class and white poor people as well.
So you're going to have to try pretty damn hard to get me to be happy with a system like which we currently have.
Good, because I don't like talking to people who think that being called names is the worst thing in the world that can happen to them. I think Christians being murdered by Isis or gays in Iran have a right to bitch. "Moron" does not qualify as murder or oppression.
Now I think "moron" is an apt description of someone who thinks that any tax is bad and government is always bad. I also think "moron" fits anyone who thinks you can rid 7 billion people of the desire of wanting to own things or businesses.
And even with atheists, I will call them morons too if they think on a planet of diverse species that projecting their utopia will work either.
If you are more concerned with being offended than the actual physical violence and oppression of others, then your priorities are way out of whack.
Well, I DO think that (most) taxes are bad, by definition. I don't see how it's moral for a group to have the power to force a person to give up SIGNIFICANT portions of their income. "Gee, this is a nice life you've got here, it would be a shame if someone were to accuse you of some crime and fuck you over for the rest of your life." Thugs < Mafia < Government. When America started out, it was essentially an experiment in Minarchism, "How small can we make a government?", and yet it still ended up like this, one of the largest governments in the world, with middle-of the road tax-revenue/GDP rates [Wikipedia].
"Taxes" make "Government" run, but why does "Government" have to run and regulate EVERYTHING with very little input from "us"? People should be allowed to DONATE to their "Government" instead of having it extorted from them, and should be able to specify WHERE their money goes.
At this point, I'm one of those
(August 16, 2014 at 8:59 am)Brian37 Wrote:
The use of the word "robbery" is bullshit. I have seen bar fights and fights as a teen between white people, where police show up and no one dies. I worked at a 7-11 and saw WHITE PEOPLE shoplift. One WHITE GUY stole several cartons of cigarettes and got physical with our store manager while trying to escape.
I did stupid shit when I was a teen myself. I drank beer, smoked pot, and even in college saw plenty of physical confrontations and no one died. I even stupidly smashed private property for fun. If I had been caught I would have deserved to be punished but death?
No matter what you saw on that tape, it still does not justify shooting an unarmed person after they put their hands up That was shoplifting, and that shove, if done by a white person, wouldn't have even been called felony assault.
The fact remains that blacks on average will be judged more harshly for the same similar actions than whites. I have seen far worse done by whites than what you see on that video.
Now here is the truth, if we as a collective society don't want it to be about race, then we as a society should fact it is a race issue. There is a disparity in how minorities are economically impacted and viewed by law enforcement . Blacks do have to worry about being black in public. If anyone thinks they only have themselves to blame they are assholes and are ignoring our nation's history of institutionalized deep seeded bigotry.
Race is where republicans, and the rich want the conversation to be. It is also where the gun industry wants the conversation to be. Maintain the economic disparity between the top and bottom, you can gett hurting white and poor republicans to point the finger at blacks instead of pointing it at the right enemy, greedy assholes pitting us against each other.
Like I have said, as a teen and young adult, seeing my white friends do far worse, to know that this video is bullshit and is merely race baiting and still would not excuse the cop from murdering an unarmed teen.
Now the other aspect of this is, if you rightfully recoil at the overly armed police AND I AGREE, that is also a product of big industry writing law for us so they do what they want regardless of how it harms the rest of us. You cannot have it both ways. You cant have a free for all market where the public is armed to the teeth then stupidly expect law enforcement not to be able to be safe. If they have to constantly fear an armed society, they are going to be trained to fear the worst and assume the worst. If we do not want that then we have to consider ourselves the AMOUNT of guns floating around.
I am sick of people blaming blacks and even any poor person in general. I am sick of republicans and libertarians and
Ayn Rand assholes
claiming that "get government out of the way" helps. None of our social ills can be fixed by allowing one class of people write laws while blaming everyone else for the flood of money they pump into politics to pit working people against each other.
I am also tired of quoting RICH people and companies that AGREE WITH ME. The bottom line is that this kid did not deserve to die. The only way to take race out of the issue is to fight the real enemy, economic disparity, and that is affecting more and more white middle class and white poor people as well.
So you're going to have to try pretty damn hard to get me to be happy with a system like which we currently have.
You sound a bit like a Libertarian. I talked to some of those on another website.
Quote:Well, I DO think that (most) taxes are bad, by definition. I don't see how it's moral for a group to have the power to force a person to give up SIGNIFICANT portions of their income.
Once someone says stupid shit like this, there is no point in going any further. But I'll try anyway.
PAY GAP, it is that simple. And if you would look at what caused the great depression and our great recession it was because of no rules no regulations and tax breaks for the rich. You look at what built the middle class it was high taxes and investment If you continually cut taxes everyone else has to compensate for what you do not pay. That means companies like EXXON AND GE who pay no taxes the rest of us have to pay, and when we cannot pay, they gut programs the rest of us use. It funnels the money upwards.
Now it would be immoral if we did not have elections, but since we have elections that means every class has the right to compete to write laws, not one class.
I think what would be easy on those with wealth if they do not want government on their backs is to give directly to workers livable wages. But it is our government, not just theirs.
