Ca we have a 'Yes, but I was high at the time' option?

(August 20, 2014 at 10:48 am)whateverist Wrote: Well you ordinarily do not strike me as very confused at all, fellow simian. But did you realize that you could vote for as many as you like? Also you can go in and change any vote you like.

I've changed my vote to include -

Quote:15. As a result of this experience, I now feel more connected to other people and/or something greater.

This relates to the fact that we aren't just part of the universe but the universe is within us and everything is connected. I regard it as right brain perception. I don't think of the something greater as being God, though, because the universe is greater than me.

(August 19, 2014 at 10:00 pm)Michael Wrote: Yes, and it was that experience that led to my 'conversion' from atheist to theist.

Mystical experiences made me question; philosophy allowed me to know.

(August 20, 2014 at 12:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(August 19, 2014 at 10:00 pm)Michael Wrote: Yes, and it was that experience that led to my 'conversion' from atheist to theist.

Mystical experiences made me question; philosophy allowed me to know.

It was the mystical experience that taught me that there was very much that I didn't and don't know :-)

(August 20, 2014 at 2:42 pm)Michael Wrote:

(August 20, 2014 at 12:13 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Mystical experiences made me question; philosophy allowed me to know.

It was the mystical experience that taught me that there was very much that I didn't and don't know :-)

So, you come across as a very decent person, having read your posts. It seems that your experience then was mystical, and had nothing to do with the accuracy or otherwise of the bible or any teachings you had.

I raised this issue previously when you referred to a critical appraisal - or words like that, I don't remember exactly - and I don't recall that you replied.

Does the lack of logic bother you at all?

No. Number 1 for me.

(August 20, 2014 at 3:25 pm)Diablo Wrote:

(August 20, 2014 at 2:42 pm)Michael Wrote: It was the mystical experience that taught me that there was very much that I didn't and don't know :-)

So, you come across as a very decent person, having read your posts. It seems that your experience then was mystical, and had nothing to do with the accuracy or otherwise of the bible or any teachings you had.

I raised this issue previously when you referred to a critical appraisal - or words like that, I don't remember exactly - and I don't recall that you replied.

Does the lack of logic bother you at all?

I'm sorry, I don't recall your previous question. In brief, I embraced the Christian faith 'at risk' of it being incorrect, or perhaps at risk of it being correct. That was after the 'mystical' experience. The critical appraisal is essentially living the faith. The longer I live it the more sense it makes and the lower the risk seems to be, though I haver no doubt I've got at least something wrong somewhere and always will. I'm also quite aware I might be terribly wrong about everything. I couldn't go back to atheism though, or at least not a materialistic form of it. For me the atheistic paradigm just couldn't hold my experiences without denying the possibility of them really reflecting the presence of the numen. I know this is going to sound so terribly week, but you know the monastic approach (I am a lay member of a monastic community of Benedictine monks) of prayer and silence has just really 'gelled' with me. I still much prefer silence to listening to preachers :-)

(August 20, 2014 at 3:53 pm)Michael Wrote:

(August 20, 2014 at 3:25 pm)Diablo Wrote: So, you come across as a very decent person, having read your posts. It seems that your experience then was mystical, and had nothing to do with the accuracy or otherwise of the bible or any teachings you had.

I raised this issue previously when you referred to a critical appraisal - or words like that, I don't remember exactly - and I don't recall that you replied.

Does the lack of logic bother you at all?

I'm sorry, I don't recall your previous question. In brief, I embraced the Christian faith 'at risk' of it being incorrect, or perhaps at risk of it being correct. That was after the 'mystical' experience. The critical appraisal is essentially living the faith. The longer I live it the more sense it makes and the lower the risk seems to be, though I haver no doubt I've got at least something wrong somewhere and always will. I'm also quite aware I might be terribly wrong about everything. I couldn't go back to atheism though, or at least not a materialistic form of it. For me the atheistic paradigm just couldn't hold my experiences without denying the possibility of them really reflecting the presence of the numen. I know this is going to sound so terribly week, but you know the monastic approach (I am a lay member of a monastic community of Benedictine monks) of prayer and silence has just really 'gelled' with me. I still much prefer silence to listening to preachers :-)

OK, I misunderstood what you meant by 'critical appraisal'. I trained as a scientist and worked as an accountant so I have a different interpretation of that phrase.

If you're happy with the problems inherent in the bible, and the explicit contradictions with logic, then I'm glad for you, and I wish you well. Personally I could never accept that difficulty: if it's wrong, it's wrong, and no amount of contemplation could persuade me otherwise.

Hi Diablo.

Well I'm a scientist (25 years post-doc work in biomedical sciences). If you mean by 'critical appraisal' the application of scientific method, then I would say that faith lies outside of the purview of science. The scientific method explores a nature that could depend on a creator and sustainer God, or have no dependence on any God; there's nothing in the scientific method that is going to distinguish between the two. I'm happy to let science shape my wider world-view, but you should probably bear in mind that you rarely find people taking a highly literalistic reading of scripture here in the UK; so I've never tried to fit science together with young earth creationism, for example (that just has never been an option for me from the start; I start from the premise of an ancient Earth and life that has evolved, and is evolving, from the very simplest life to more complex forms).

Altered states of consciousness...