(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: Hi, I was raised to be strictly religious. Me and my husband went to some Christian forums and asked some questions. I don't really know that we had them answered. So I am coming here. Me and my husband are kind of borderline right now. We believe theres a god maybe, but we are not sure that he cares or has the right motives etc.

If that's how you feel then you're likely a deist. A deists believes that God created the world, but doesn't interact with it or care about it.

(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: My husband feels like god is playing the biggest mmo ever lol. That we are all just a game. I kind of agree with this. I feel very distraught because my mother who is the a very sweet pentocostal woman lost her husband and father recently. She lost her job had to move in with us. She has a very rare disease called Dystonia (like Parkinson's but worse) amid other aliments. When they eliminated my mothers position she looked at me and said maybe god has eliminated me to.... I'm just very angry that someone (God) would do this to her. I just don't understand.

Being angry at God is not atheism. Atheists lacks a belief in God, you can't hate something you don't even think exists.

(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: I also, feel like some things my mother thinks are sinful are not. I feel like if we have to follow the Christian religion it would be impossible this day and time with all of the temptations and horrible things going on.

I don't agree with the concept of sin. The idea that your thoughts and actions are crimes against God is utter nonsense.

(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: Anyway mainly I wanted to give you some of my background. I want to she why all of you choose atheism? Why do you feel like there really is no god?

I can't speak for every atheist, but for almost every atheist I have known, we have come to lack a belief in God for logical reasons, not emotional ones. I am simply not convinced that a God exists in the same way you may not be convinced that leprechauns, fairies, bigfoot, the lochness monster, or unicorns exist. I don't believe in God the way you don't believe in Zeus or Thor.

Similarly, I didn't choose to be an atheist. I simply couldn't believe the more I learned about religion. It never seemed right to me, and the more I sought knowledge, the more I lacked belief.

(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: If there isn't I know that sucks, but a lot of things in life do...

Why does it suck? Do you think atheists are miserable people? I know I'm not. I love my life, and I love being an atheist. I don't feel guilty for "impure" thoughts. I don't uselessly pray to God when my life is not going well. I know I'm in control of myself, I know this is the one life I have and I make the most of it. I appreciate nature, love, science, for what they are, not thinking there is some mystical nonsense going on behind the scenes. I feel like I have the best tool set at my disposal for understanding what is most likely to be true about the world, and what most likely isn't. I find atheism positive and freeing. Not believing in God is not scary. Sure, I don't think an afterlife exists, but I don't care. I won't care, because when I die, it will be no different than what it was like for me before I was born. My life is what is important, living it how I see fit, making sure it's the most fulfilling it can be. Atheism doesn't tie you to some ancient doctrine made by middle eastern scribes-men hundreds or thousands of years ago just so you can get into an unproven afterlife.

You want more benefits of atheism? Here are some:
http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/l...ition.html

Pandering to the 'self' seems to be where problems occur. Why not be selfless? Isn't that the route to greater happiness?

The point of faith, is that you trust the information presented (ie the bible), and act on it.

Quite the opposite to unquestioning, I believe questioning is central to faith. If you don't really believe what you're professing, then that makes you a fake.

Sounds to me like you're already unbelievers. Yeah you have some sort of vague semi formed notions about spooky stuffs. This has nothing to do with Christianity IMO, but superstition.

(June 8, 2010 at 6:12 pm)Eilonnwy Wrote:

(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: If there isn't I know that sucks, but a lot of things in life do...

Why does it suck? Do you think atheists are miserable people? I know I'm not. I love my life, and I love being an atheist. I don't feel guilty for "impure" thoughts. I don't uselessly pray to God when my life is not going well. I know I'm in control of myself, I know this is the one life I have and I make the most of it. I appreciate nature, love, science, for what they are, not thinking there is some mystical nonsense going on behind the scenes. I feel like I have the best tool set at my disposal for understanding what is most likely to be true about the world, and what most likely isn't. I find atheism positive and freeing. Not believing in God is not scary. Sure, I don't think an afterlife exists, but I don't care. I won't care, because when I die, it will be no different than what it was like for me before I was born. My life is what is important, living it how I see fit, making sure it's the most fulfilling it can be. Atheism doesn't tie you to some ancient doctrine made by middle eastern scribes-men hundreds or thousands of years ago just so you can get into an unproven afterlife.

You want more benefits of atheism? Here are some:
http://www.daylightatheism.org/2006/02/l...ition.html

I kudos'ed the post, but this deserved more than that (and I can't rep you up twice). This is exactly the way I see life. Atheism is a positive thing in my opinion. The knowledge that this life is all we get is extraordinarily freeing. I never have to feel guilty for the thoughts in my head, because there is no magical, all-seeing god judging me for being human. I am kind, loving, charitable, content, and... most of all... happy! And all without a single god in my life. Life is amazing enough without bothering to add magic and make-believe.

(June 8, 2010 at 5:17 pm)Jocenel Wrote: Okay I'll ask questions.

My husband has a good point he makes all the time. The bible is collected supposedly by a bunch of people under the spirit of God. The Roman Catholic church took out a lot of information. How can we believe that the bible is real or accurate?

Here's some history (by Dprjones at youtube) of how the bible was put together in a very disorderly manner. Even before (and after) the catholics had their way with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFDwK5ko7sI

(June 8, 2010 at 4:42 pm)Jocenel Wrote: I want to she why all of you choose atheism? Why do you feel like there really is no god? If there isn't I know that sucks, but a lot of things in life do...

I didn't choose to become atheist. I was one before I even knew what atheism ment. I simply didn't believe what I was being told.

Never believed in god because for one, there is no evidence to suggest that there is one. It's not very rational to jump to a god conclusion based on nothing. Also, I wouldn't believe in the christian god or any other god because they don't seem all that godly. Seeing as they seem to have a very human side to them. Like anger, the desire to be worshiped, feared, to have control, to choose who's side to be on, ect ect. An all loving, all knowing god just wouldn't be that dumb. To only "supposedly" heal the very few but not the many. To send good moral people to hell for the dumbest of reasons like lack of belief. These things you just wouldn't see in a very intellegant being. Do you know anyone who could send someone to a place where they would be tortured even though they did nothing wrong? To watch them suffer? I couldn't do it. So how can god? How can he be that heartless? An all intellegant being who has no problem sending people to hell and to watch them suffer. If there really is a being great enough to create the universe, he can't be as immoral and unintellegant as the being christians and muslims portray him to be.

I don't believe a god or gods exist but if such a thing does, he's no christian god or any other god man has created.

So you have to ask yourself, does a god exist? If you believe so, why? Also, which god and why. Does any of what you've been told make any sense?

(June 8, 2010 at 6:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Pandering to the 'self' seems to be where problems occur. Why not be selfless? Isn't that the route to greater happiness?

How can you give to others if you can't give to yourself?

Do you think atheists are selfish?

To be honest, my recognition that this life is all I have and that I need to make meaning out of it myself makes me want to help people. There is no great orgasm in the sky after this. This big blue ball is all we got, and so many people experience pain and suffering in it. It makes me want to help them. I want everyone to have the best life possible. I want us all to work together to create heaven here, because this is the only thing we know for certain that we've got. So yes, it means gaining a sense of self, I wouldn't call it pandering. If I become completely selfless, how can I truly be happy? I've given everything I have away.

Carl Sagan Wrote:Atheism is more than just the knowledge that gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature part of nature.

Quote:This has nothing to do with Christianity IMO, but superstition.

Memo to Frodo. There is no distinction there.

Thanks guys for the good points.

It seems to make sense. One of my husbands major points was that he didn't believe in the bible for all those reasons. (Made up by people, a long time ago, not relevant enough to this day in time, catholic church and others changed it.)

Let me think of another question.

How can people (like my mother) hold on to their faith so strongly? Is it because my mother has been taught that way? Is it because people can't stand the truth?

(June 8, 2010 at 7:34 pm)Jocenel Wrote: How can people (like my mother) hold on to their faith so strongly? Is it because my mother has been taught that way? Is it because people can't stand the truth?

It's because she believes. Whatever her reasons are, I'm sure she has some. Maybe she had a personal experience, maybe she clings to what she was taught, maybe she just "feels" God's presence. Maybe it's a combination of all three or more. Honestly, I can't speak to why your mother believes, I don't know her, and only she can really tell you why.

People are also really great a mental compartmentalization. It is actually really easy for humans to possess contradictory thoughts.

Quote:Is it because people can't stand the truth?

You're asking her to admit that her whole life has been a delusion. That's asking a lot of most people. If doubt does not creep in on its own you will not plant it there. She'll just dig in her heels and scream "goddidit" even more.

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