(September 15, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Celestine Wrote: I don't care what the pillars of atheism are.

Hint: There aren't any. Your frothing is interfering with your ability to detect sarcasm.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: You understand that the United States and Russia have been vying for control in th Middle East since the start of the Cold War right?

Yep. Are you talking about the atheists in Russia? Because the atheists in the USA have virtually no influence.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: When Russia gained prominence, the United States funded and trained rebel groups to fight against the Russians and vice versa, all across the world. There was little talk of religious wars here, these were pure secular wars fought for control of the resources and power. All wars are thus.

So why was your diatribe about atheists?

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: Try reading the Quran you'll understand that the actions taken by ISIS are actually quite against its teachings. (At least in what I've read so far)

I'm not anti-Muslim as some here seem to be, but scriptures are like prisoners: they'll say anything if you torture them enough.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: Ah the classical blame religion for all the problems in the world, the perfect scapegoat isn't it? After all how could humans ever be capable being of such malicious character by their own natural ignorance and stupidity?

They certainly can, but surely extra encouragement and justification helps them be worse.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: Learn about Islam, talk with Muslims, before you presume to know about them. Have you done this?

I have, though I realize I'm not the one who hit your ISIS hot button, since you failed to make any distinctions before ranting about us, I'm comfortable being included among the great unwashed atheists to whom you feel yourself so superior.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: OR do you believe whatever the news tells you about these foreign people who live thousands of miles away from you whom you don't know anything about?

That's a bit of a false dichotomy, isn't it? I could be ignorant of direct experience of Muslims and also not believe what the news tells me. I keep in mind that news focuses on the newsworthy and it's a mistake to think that news story about some minority within a minority is representative of the whole minority.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: You're very narrow minded from what I can see, perhaps I am wrong, but at least I am not surprised or suffer from disappointment. After all... this is what I expected from my fellow atheists, pure ignorance.

Did you ever hear the story about the guy who asks the farmer what people are like in the area, and the farmer asks back 'What are they like where you're from?' The guy says, 'Mostly pretty nice, friendly, and helpful; with a few bad eggs'. The farmer tells him, 'You'll find people around here are mostly like that, too'.

Another guy ask the same farmer the same question and gets the same question back from the farmer. The guy says, 'Mostly pretty rude, fault-finding, and unhelpful; with a few good eggs'. The farmer tells him, 'You'll find people around here are mostly like that, too'.

---

(September 15, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Celestine Wrote: The difference between a murderer and a religious person is that one harms someone and the other doesn't. If a person is a murderer their religion should not be attached to them even if they claim they took such measures for their religion. The mindset of a murderer is different than a non-murderer they are deluded people and regardless of their beliefs they must face the consequences of their actions, atheist or theist.

So if their motives are explicitly religious, we are to dismiss their religion as a motive? Kind of assumes the conclusion you want to reach, doesn't it?

(September 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm)Celestine Wrote: Your fiancee and other atheists proved it to themselves, and were likely already unsure about their beliefs. The change from theism to atheism is a gradual one from my experience. Faith based queries come before evidence based ones.

You think your own experience is so universal that if someone else claims to have a different experience, they must be lying or deluded?

(September 15, 2014 at 3:43 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Not atheists.

There might be something to that. Definitely in the case of Fox News, I think.

You're an atheist, too, right? You seem to be doing the opposite of projecting. Why do you assume we're all so different from you? Just because we're not ashamed of the label 'atheist'?

You'd be surprised who's an atheist in this world, many people especially those in politics might say they're of a certain religion, but are so vaguely associated with it that one could almost think they were closet atheists. Adolf Hitler and Barrack Obama are two people whom I believe are/were closet atheists.

There's a lot to that statement about the news, the news is pretty much propaganda, misinforming, and distraction from actual important issues.

I am an atheist, terribly ashamed to be labeled with other atheists who insult others just for their beliefs.

(September 15, 2014 at 3:45 pm)Celestine Wrote: Tada. It was all in the Quran, and all you had to do was read it to clear up this misunderstanding.

No, none of your response is in the Quran. You pulled your "analysis" out of your ass.

Protip: the "correct" apologetic on the call-to-war verse is - "but they was being mean to me!", i.e., we only attack/kill/torture in self-defense.

Of course history shows just the opposite, and when taken in context of the times, the meaning is clear.

Mohamed was a murderous war lord - robbing caravans, killing male prisoners, enslaving women and children, torturing, beheading, etc.

The plainest reading is to take it for just what it says.

The self-defense claim doesn't wash either as Mo's supposed combatants were not the instigators in many cases. All one has to do is look at the map of the Muslim expansion to put the "self-defense" claim to the lie:



So, tada yourself.

(September 15, 2014 at 4:03 pm)Celestine Wrote:

(September 15, 2014 at 3:43 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Not atheists.

There might be something to that. Definitely in the case of Fox News, I think.

You're an atheist, too, right? You seem to be doing the opposite of projecting. Why do you assume we're all so different from you? Just because we're not ashamed of the label 'atheist'?

You'd be surprised who's an atheist in this world, many people especially those in politics might say they're of a certain religion, but are so vaguely associated with it that one could almost think they were closet atheists. Adolf Hitler and Barrack Obama are two people whom I believe are/were closet atheists.

There's a lot to that statement about the news, the news is pretty much propaganda, misinforming, and distraction from actual important issues.

I am an atheist, terribly ashamed to be labeled with other atheists who insult others just for their beliefs.

Wait, an atheist ashamed of being an atheist that claims Obama and Hitler are atheists? Are you sure you're not a plant from Fox News or something?

(September 15, 2014 at 4:03 pm)Celestine Wrote: I am an atheist, terribly ashamed to be labeled with other atheists who insult others just for their beliefs.

Then set yourself apart and let your own voice and actions represent you. Stop blaming others for the the evils of a few. I'm a man. Some men are abusive and violent - I am not. Must I, like you be ashamed that I share something in common with a few in my set, or would it be better for me to be the change I'd like to see in the world, rather than complain about it on the internet?

(September 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Allah appreciates pretext and would prefer it if you didn't destroy the fancy baubles piled up in his house.

Full of "odd quotes". I call them disheveled and poorly thought-out....but "odd" works as well, I suppose.

Right, the killing and the maiming is good for you - and even though it disgusts you, you'll be the better for it. I have a different theory, the killing and the maiming disgusts people because it's disgusting and patently -not- good for us, no matter who tells us to do it.

It can and -ha-s been construed as such - you're not really trying to put yourself in the shoes of the faithful......are you? That has nothing to do with what is good "in their eyes" (subjective) but what Allah decrees to be good (which is believed to be objective). People believe in the causes for which they lay down life and limb - but this is an entirely different beast.......

I know right, evil motherfuckers. How dare they not believe, I'm going to hurt them.

-and some feel that they are doing gods bidding along precisely these lines......even the big man deserves time off here and there. Why not off a few kaffir and save him the trouble?


Yeah......so, as per the above, if I off some unbelievers and do gods bidding he might give me candy - or awesome sex robots in an eternal hereafter. Where do I sign up?

Indeed, it -is- all in the quran.....but you don't need to clear up this misunderstanding for us....you need to go clear it up for some hardcore mujahideen, eh? They might clear something up for you as well - like that nasty point of attachment between your head and your body. You'll see things much more clearly when that's handled, of course - and as a bonus...they might get sex robots for "helping" you to see the truth. I really can't stress this enough.....what -couldn't- you get a teenage boy to do by promising him sex robots if he;s never so much as seen a female face (other than his family...if that)?

Even though I am an atheist, I believe in hell, I define hell as a place of pure ignorance. You purveyor of misinformation and ignorance, how shall I see you other than in my form of hell? I sincerely hope that you will abandon your hatred,, for it has made you blind, deaf, and dumb. These things you have said only keep you in your own little world of hatred. Were you to accept that it is not religion that causes problems in this world, then you would finally be able to help others. But here you sit with your tongue of falsehoods. How should I treat you? After I worked sincerely to clear up the misunderstanding of those quotes that JesusHChrist had erroneously posted believing that they were fanatic calls to war? How do you expect me to respect you after such a post as yours?

Truly you reside in a hell far worse than any theology can create.

(September 15, 2014 at 4:06 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: No, none of your response is in the Quran. You pulled your "analysis" out of your ass.

Protip: the "correct" apologetic on the call-to-war verse is - "but they was being mean to me!", i.e., we only attack/kill/torture in self-defense.

Of course history shows just the opposite, and when taken in context of the times, the meaning is clear.

Mohamed was a murderous war lord - robbing caravans, killing male prisoners, enslaving women and children, torturing, beheading, etc.

The plainest reading is to take it for just what it says.

The self-defense claim doesn't wash either as Mo's supposed combatants were not the instigators in many cases. All one has to do is look at the map of the Muslim expansion to put the "self-defense" claim to the lie:



So, tada yourself.

I do not see the point you are trying to make. So the Arabs created a new State and Religion and managed to conquer all of Persia and the Byzantine Empire? You do not claim that the Persians were following Ahura Mazda's command at conquest or that the Byzantines were following Yahwehs to build their empires do you? It was a magnificent feat the Arabs managed to do, a conquest on the scale of Alexander the Greats but instead of calling them Arabs, you call them Muslims, instead of viewing it as ingenious military tactics, you view it as a war of oppression by these Muslims against Pagans, Christians, and Zoroastrians. There is great cause for you to worry, for this is the only time in history where people make these assumptions and you all to readily agree to their definitions. The ARABIC Caliphates ushered in a golden age of thought, advancing many fields such as science, medicine, and astronomy. But you give them no thanks. Shameless are you in your ignorance.

(September 15, 2014 at 4:16 pm)Celestine Wrote:

(September 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Allah appreciates pretext and would prefer it if you didn't destroy the fancy baubles piled up in his house.

Full of "odd quotes". I call them disheveled and poorly thought-out....but "odd" works as well, I suppose.

Right, the killing and the maiming is good for you - and even though it disgusts you, you'll be the better for it. I have a different theory, the killing and the maiming disgusts people because it's disgusting and patently -not- good for us, no matter who tells us to do it.

It can and -ha-s been construed as such - you're not really trying to put yourself in the shoes of the faithful......are you? That has nothing to do with what is good "in their eyes" (subjective) but what Allah decrees to be good (which is believed to be objective). People believe in the causes for which they lay down life and limb - but this is an entirely different beast.......

I know right, evil motherfuckers. How dare they not believe, I'm going to hurt them.

-and some feel that they are doing gods bidding along precisely these lines......even the big man deserves time off here and there. Why not off a few kaffir and save him the trouble?


Yeah......so, as per the above, if I off some unbelievers and do gods bidding he might give me candy - or awesome sex robots in an eternal hereafter. Where do I sign up?

Indeed, it -is- all in the quran.....but you don't need to clear up this misunderstanding for us....you need to go clear it up for some hardcore mujahideen, eh? They might clear something up for you as well - like that nasty point of attachment between your head and your body. You'll see things much more clearly when that's handled, of course - and as a bonus...they might get sex robots for "helping" you to see the truth. I really can't stress this enough.....what -couldn't- you get a teenage boy to do by promising him sex robots if he;s never so much as seen a female face (other than his family...if that)?

Even though I am an atheist, I believe in hell, I define hell as a place of pure ignorance. You purveyor of misinformation and ignorance, how shall I see you other than in my form of hell? I sincerely hope that you will abandon your hatred,, for it has made you blind, deaf, and dumb. These things you have said only keep you in your own little world of hatred. Were you to accept that it is not religion that causes problems in this world, then you would finally be able to help others. But here you sit with your tongue of falsehoods. How should I treat you? After I worked sincerely to clear up the misunderstanding of those quotes that JesusHChrist had erroneously posted believing that they were fanatic calls to war? How do you expect me to respect you after such a post as yours?

Truly you reside in a hell far worse than any theology can create.

Hopefully you've enjoyed your flight with AF, we understand you have many choices when it comes to trolling forums and we thank you for your patronage. Emergency exits can be found on the head of a banhammer, which may or may not be relevant soon.

The model for all men:



Not.

Good lord that picture.

(September 15, 2014 at 1:13 pm)Celestine Wrote: So please reconsider your stanc e on religion.

Nope. Religion is delusion. Delusional people can be dangerous.


And my money is on you being a Muslim liar, not an atheist.