(September 16, 2014 at 3:17 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I don't believe that, I mean Christianity has helped me realise my problems had sins so that I rarely ever do them. I believe I am growing in Christ, following his examples in areas of life. I could never imagine life without Christ.

What about ShaMan though? He has had a better life since he stopped following Christ. Do..you think he's lying?

The simple answer is he was never a follower in the first place, he may not be lying. All I am saying is he must not of truely followed christ.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm)C4RM5 Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:12 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Because you're probably a fine person without it. I was a christian for many years. Now that I'm no longer a christian, I'm a much kinder, more patient, and more genuinely sincere person than I ever had any hope of becoming as a christian. Christianity discourages growth in favor of tradition. Growth is where real transformation happens.

I don't believe that, I mean Christianity has helped me realise my problems had sins so that I rarely ever do them. I believe I am growing in Christ, following his examples in areas of life. I could never imagine life without Christ.

I once felt that same way as you. You are offering your experience - which I respect. You can choose to disbelieve my own experience, but please give yourself some credit. Your religion teaches you that you're less than worthless apart from christ. I'm telling you that the exact opposite of that is true. I'm on your side here, really. Not Jesus' side, nor the side of your religion, I'm on YOUR side, and I have hope for you.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)C4RM5 Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:17 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: What about ShaMan though? He has had a better life since he stopped following Christ. Do..you think he's lying?

The simple answer is he was never a follower in the first place, he may not be lying. All I am saying is he must not of truely followed christ.

Well aren't you just the perfect little Scotsman.

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(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)ShaMan Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I don't believe that, I mean Christianity has helped me realise my problems had sins so that I rarely ever do them. I believe I am growing in Christ, following his examples in areas of life. I could never imagine life without Christ.

I once felt that same way as you. You are offering your experience - which I respect. You can choose to disbelieve my own experience, but please give yourself some credit. Your religion teaches you that you're less than worthless apart from christ. I'm telling you that the exact opposite of that is true. I'm on your side here, really. Not Jesus' side, nor the side of your religion, I'm on YOUR side, and I have hope for you.

Sorry ShaMan, apparently you were never a real follower. Carmy knows these things.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)C4RM5 Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:17 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: What about ShaMan though? He has had a better life since he stopped following Christ. Do..you think he's lying?

The simple answer is he was never a follower in the first place, he may not be lying. All I am saying is he must not of truely followed christ.

I appreciate your perspective. Shall I now make claims about you that I have no way of knowing or supporting? The ice will get thin with me if you continue with this tactic.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:22 pm)ShaMan Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: The simple answer is he was never a follower in the first place, he may not be lying. All I am saying is he must not of truely followed christ.

I appreciate your perspective. Shall I now make claims about you that I have no way of knowing or supporting? The ice will get thin with me if you continue with this tactic.

I am extremely sorry if I offended you, I had no other way to put it. But if believe once you are truley saved will never lose your faith.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:13 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:12 pm)ShaMan Wrote: I'm a much kinder, more patient, and more genuinely sincere person...

Even if you do hate me for being a non-bacon sandwich lover..

Silly. I don't hate you. But if I did, I'd do it with genuinely sincere patience and kindness

(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)ShaMan Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I don't believe that, I mean Christianity has helped me realise my problems had sins so that I rarely ever do them. I believe I am growing in Christ, following his examples in areas of life. I could never imagine life without Christ.

I once felt that same way as you. You are offering your experience - which I respect. You can choose to disbelieve my own experience, but please give yourself some credit. Your religion teaches you that you're less than worthless apart from christ. I'm telling you that the exact opposite of that is true. I'm on your side here, really. Not Jesus' side, nor the side of your religion, I'm on YOUR side, and I have hope for you.

My religion does not teach that I am useless, it actually teaches that I am valued that is why God offers everyone salvation. What it actually teaches is that without God i 'm going to suffer in Hell.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:28 pm)C4RM5 Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)ShaMan Wrote: I once felt that same way as you. You are offering your experience - which I respect. You can choose to disbelieve my own experience, but please give yourself some credit. Your religion teaches you that you're less than worthless apart from christ. I'm telling you that the exact opposite of that is true. I'm on your side here, really. Not Jesus' side, nor the side of your religion, I'm on YOUR side, and I have hope for you.

My religion does not teach that I am useless, it actually teaches that I am valued that is why God offers everyone salvation. What it actually teaches is that without God i 'm going to suffer in Hell.

SO the only way to avoid getting tortured by God, is to worship him. You seriously don't see anything wrong with that?

(September 16, 2014 at 3:21 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: The simple answer is he was never a follower in the first place, he may not be lying. All I am saying is he must not of truely followed christ.

Well aren't you just the perfect little Scotsman.

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(September 16, 2014 at 3:20 pm)ShaMan Wrote: I once felt that same way as you. You are offering your experience - which I respect. You can choose to disbelieve my own experience, but please give yourself some credit. Your religion teaches you that you're less than worthless apart from christ. I'm telling you that the exact opposite of that is true. I'm on your side here, really. Not Jesus' side, nor the side of your religion, I'm on YOUR side, and I have hope for you.

Sorry ShaMan, apparently you were never a real follower. Carmy knows these things.

You were actually quite close at guessing where i'm from. I am not the perfect Scotsman , I am the no where near perfect Northern Irishman.
From a personally perspective, I just came out of a rough patch in my life where I moved away from God and my life got quite bad. But I went to a Christian convenction and now my faith is completely strenghtened.

(September 16, 2014 at 3:24 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I am extremely sorry if I offended you, I had no other way to put it. But if believe once you are truley saved will never lose your faith.

I'm not offended, I just thought I'd sent up a flag before things become unnecessarily messy. I honestly understand - I once would have said the same thing to someone who left the faith.

Consider this; I lived as a christian for many years, and I probably experienced many of the things which you are now experiencing. You, on the other hand, have never been where I am now, and therefore you have no way of legitimately addressing (or refuting) my current mindset.

My time as a christian was an extremely valuable education which lends itself daily to my every consideration. Take from that statement what you will.