So, how does your faith overcome any of this?

(October 1, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(October 1, 2014 at 8:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't see anything in there that should frighten you about atheism or anti-theism

Those who staked their selfworth on their own foolishness is right to fear anything that would recognize their foolishness for what it is.

I agree.

Quote:As for Hezekiah the Judahite, who did not submit to my yoke: forty-six of his strong, walled cities, as well as the small towns in their area, which were without number, by levelling with battering-rams and by bringing up seige-engines, and by attacking and storming on foot, by mines, tunnels, and breeches, I besieged and took them. 200,150 people, great and small, male and female, horses, mules, asses, camels, cattle and sheep without number, I brought away from them and counted as spoil. (Hezekiah) himself, like a caged bird I shut up in Jerusalem, his royal city. I threw up earthworks against him— the one coming out of the city-gate, I turned back to his misery. His cities, which I had despoiled, I cut off from his land, and to Mitinti, king of Ashdod, Padi, king of Ekron, and Silli-bêl, king of Gaza, I gave (them). And thus I diminished his land. I added to the former tribute, and I laid upon him the surrender of their land and imposts—gifts for my majesty. As for Hezekiah, the terrifying splendor of my majesty overcame him, and the Arabs and his mercenary troops which he had brought in to strengthen Jerusalem, his royal city, deserted him. In addition to the thirty talents of gold and eight hundred talents of silver, gems, antimony, jewels, large carnelians, ivory-inlaid couches, ivory-inlaid chairs, elephant hides, elephant tusks, ebony, boxwood, all kinds of valuable treasures, as well as his daughters, his harem, his male and female musicians, which he had brought after me to Nineveh, my royal city. To pay tribute and to accept servitude, he dispatched his messengers..

From Sennacharib's Prism,

That Sennacharilb.....he knew what to do with Hezekiah!

(October 1, 2014 at 9:03 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So, how does your faith overcome any of this?

Because if anti-theism doesn't make me a better person and Christianity does, I'll choose Christianity.

LOL, I'm asking you -how- christianity makes you a better person. The point of anti-theism isn't to make someone a better person in the first place....so I'm not surprised that you don't find it useful in that regard. Neither do I.

(October 1, 2014 at 9:07 pm)Rhythm Wrote: LOL, I'm asking you -how- christianity makes you a better person. The point of anti-theism isn't to make someone a better person in the first place....so I'm not surprised that you don't find it useful in that regard. Neither do I.

Right. I understand if you don't find it useful in that regard, and I believe you, but to claim that I don't find it useful for myself in that way is rather forward.

Also, I gave examples earlier -"I care about other people's happiness, I'm passionate about human rights" -but if you're asking me to be more detailed, sure: My faith relies on me to believe and practice grace, mercy, forgiveness, humility, and love toward others. In that respect alone, I am becoming a better person.

Might makes right doesn't exactly mesh with human rights. So yeah, I doubt it's working - but that really doesn't matter in the end. -Something's- working.

You'll have to forgive this suggestion...but don't you think that it might be wise to hinge all of those wonderful things you mentioned at the end on something...I don't know..hell, something that really happened? Something that requires no faith (so no faith could be lost, not even a possibility - leading to all the nasty shit you mentioned a couple of posts back?) There's no shortage, you know? Particularly, rather than being in the position of saying "even if it was all bullshit" - you see...you realize that you don't actually need god for any of this, that's made explicitly clear in your statements. You'd still do what you do, you'd still be who you are right now.

(It was anti-theism that I didn't find useful in the capacity of making me a better person, in my last post Hez...and I say that as an anti-theist. Now that you've explained how christianity is working for you...yeah, I suppose it doesn't seem all that clear to me that christianity is working for you.)

(October 1, 2014 at 9:20 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Might makes right doesn't exactly mesh with human rights. So yeah, I doubt it's working - but that really doesn't matter in the end. -Something's- working.

You'll have to forgive this suggestion...but don't you think that it might be wise to hinge all of those wonderful things you mentioned at the end on something...I don't know..hell, something that really happened? Something that requires no faith (so no faith could be lost, not even a possibility - leading to all the nasty shit you mentioned a couple of posts back?) There's no shortage, you know?

No its ok, thank you for respectfully asking.

You're asking (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't it wiser to hinge all of those wonderful things I mentioned on something that requires no faith?

I would say no it's not wiser. Because I've already tried doing that and I realized that I am the kind of person that has to put faith in something in order for me to even derive purpose and/or passion from it.

Also what "nasty shit" did I say earlier? (I assume by that you mean hateful or vulgar words) I only recall ever answering your questions about what brought me to belive in God.

Quote:Now that you've explained how christianity is working for you...yeah, I suppose it doesn't seem all that clear to me that christianity is working for you.

I'm glad I could communicate that clearly

EDIT: I misread that. I thought you said it seems clear to you. In that case, I would say instead, I'm sorry I can't communicate it clearly

(October 1, 2014 at 7:44 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 1, 2014 at 7:39 am)Bibliofagus Wrote: Thing stopped evolving? Heh. Guess it's time to lose my assets in pharma and agriculture then...

Oh lol wait. The guy claiming this thinks jebus died to put an end to crucifixion.

Has it occured to you that maybe I don't think I am that smart, but that I do think you are just plain thick?

*Doing my best Rogue impression*

"You need some morals. Obviously, you come from bad parents. Oh, and don't be a jerk."

I call it like I see it. It's a scientific fact and parents are responsible for teaching their children good manners.

Still making fun of me and avoiding every point I make with mockery. You all need some debate skills. Some of the worst I've ever seen.

If you don't want to be scolded then don't be jerks. I am not here for your pleasure. I want serious mature conversation. Any body here got that?

You can dish it out but boy howdy you sure can't take it!

As long as adhominem is the best you can do...I digress...really I do.

You can not piss me off. No matter how much you mock or insult Jesus, God, Zeus, me, you can not piss me off. I don't care about such words.

If a condescending competition is what you want I can hold my own. I prefer PEACE dudes.

What's y'all's problem anyways. Afraid I might convert a religious person over to spiritual?

If you break down religion, atheism and spiritual, spiritual is the most moral of the three. Why; you ask? Probably because most of us smoke pot, drink and fornicate. Yes I said fornicate. So we don't judge much. We LOVE; LOVE. It is also a good choice for the LGBT community, that I cherish. I say let 'em, let me, have the LOVE of a Creator, if that's what they want and trust me many do, I do. I don't see any thing wrong with fornicating as long as you're an adult.

We're chilling enjoying life. Just quit frigging worrying about it. That's what I'm doing.

It's sad that mocking folks is your hobby, very sad indeed. Seems like a waste of precious, irreplaceable TIME.

I just can't respond to any more mockery. My time is precious as well. Thanks.

I apologize for rubbing you the wrong way. I won't be intimidated by any one here though. I don't want to intimidate any one. Just mature debates about our differences of opinions. Like civilized human beings.

http://youtu.be/JwYX52BP2Sk

(October 1, 2014 at 9:32 pm)Hezekiah Wrote: No its ok, thank you for respectfully asking.

You're asking (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't it wiser to hinge all of those wonderful things I mentioned on something that requires no faith?

I would say no it's not wiser. Because I've already tried doing that and I realized that I am the kind of person that has to put faith in something in order for me to even derive purpose and/or passion from it.

I recall you saying something...just a bit ago, to the effect of "even if there was no god I would still be a christian" - so....that sort of rubs against the appraissal of self you've offered here. Even with gnosis - knowledge that there was no god - you'd still be doing the things you're doing. You understand that this creates a nonsensical scenario, yes? You can't know that there is no god, and yet have faith that there is. If you could be the person you are with such knowledge...it clearly isn't the faith doing you any favors. Seems to me it's more like you think the articles of this faith stand on their own merits (no god required), for you, even if only out of practicality.

Quote:Also what "nasty shit" did I say earlier? (I assume by that you mean hateful or vulgar words) I only recall ever answering your questions about what brought me to belive in God.

The loss of this, the loss of that, depression, isolation, etc. Hmn, maybe I'm misremembering?

-nope....nope, that was you.