(October 3, 2014 at 12:50 am)genkaus Wrote:

(October 2, 2014 at 10:26 pm)Drich Wrote: Educate yourself with something besides that 'I hate God 'propaganda mini is drawn to. Something like a legit historical source material. Otherwise some one like me who wants nothing more than to make new members look the fool for not fact checking their anti God propaganda they get themselves worked up on will feed it back to you.
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Referencing the site above the only president that did not affiliate himself with some form of Christianity is Monroe.

That is why we are referred to as a Christian nation.

You should have stopped after giving evidence for religious affiliations of founding fathers. Their religious affiliation does not make your country a Christian nation. Concluding that it does makes you look like a fool.

Drippy needs no help to look like a fool.

Quote:And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter

--Thomas Jefferson - in a letter to John Adams

Had only Jefferson lived after Darwin...he could have tossed off even the minimal deistic nonsense he maintained. As it is, Jefferson has an excuse for clinging to childish nonsense of 'gods'. Drippy is just a jackass.

Christianity, like all religions, is an illusion and a lie. This country was founded on illusions and lies. 2+2=5

What is this idiotic fixation on what this country is founded as or on?

Man progress. The country had better progress with it. The only difference it would make whether this country was founded as a secular or christian nation is whether this country needs to progress a lot, or it needs to progress even more.

You do realize homo sapiens were founded as a race of cannibals, right? For those christians who claim exaggerated importance of how things were founded, are they ready to be butchered and eaten?

Butt.. Adam and Eve weren't cannibals

(October 3, 2014 at 1:56 pm)DramaQueen Wrote: Butt.. Adam and Eve weren't cannibals

How do you know, were you there?

Butt.. it's in da baibl

(October 3, 2014 at 2:02 pm)DramaQueen Wrote: Butt.. it's in da baibl

Were you there when it was supposedly handed down?

I'd like to hear how a real fundie would respond. They'll probably use circular reasoning.

(October 3, 2014 at 12:44 pm)radical97 Wrote: Drich, Evidently you did not read the part where I said that George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln did not believe in Christianity. Read this, please:

The Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation and Bill of Rights despised Christianity. That includes George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, and Andrew Jackson. Let us include Abraham Lincoln as well. He may at one time considered himself to be a Christian but that was before he understood the bible completely.

They were very learned men who read the Bible. That is true with most atheists. Most people become atheists after reading the Bible. That is not to say that all the Founding Fathers did not believe in God. A few did. It was just not the Christian God. Very seldom do they refer to a god and never do they mention Jesus Christ.

The Reverend Bird Wilson, who was just a few years removed from being a contemporary of the so-called founding fathers, said further in the above-mentioned sermon that "the founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, and Andrew Jackson] _not a one had professed a belief in Christianity_" (Remsberg, p. 120, emphasis added).

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
John Adams -letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."
John Adams

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all
of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects." - James Madison,
Letter to Bradford, January 1774

"I do not believe that any degree of recollection will bring to my mind any fact which would prove General Washington to have been a believer in the Christian revelation further than as may be hoped from his constant attendance upon Christian worship, in connection with the general reserve of his character."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a letter to the Rev B C C Parker, dated December 31, 1832, from Wilson, Memoir of Bishop White, pp. 189-191, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, pp. 28

"The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense." - Thomas
Paine

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin:
Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Benjamin Franklin

"He [the Rev. Mr. Whitefield] used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my
conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers
were heard." - from Franklin's Autobiography

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme
Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable
of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - Thomas Jefferson,
Jefferson's Works, Vol. IV, p. 365, Randolph's ed.

"In no instance have ... the churches been guardians of the liberties of
people." - James Madison

"A just government, instituted to perpetuate liberty, does not need the
clergy." - James Madison

...Dr. Abercrombie said more than I have repeated. At the close of our conversation on the subject his emphatic expression was -- for I well remember the very words "Sir, Washington was a Deist."'"
-- Mr. Robert Dale Owen, newspaper reporter, afterwards a member of Congress and later Minister to Naples, after interviewing Dr. Wilson, giving the substance of the interview in a letter written on November 13, 1831, which was published in New York two weeks later, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, pp. 26-27

"Democracy does not need the church, or the clergy." - James Madison

"That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some,
and to their eternal infamy the clergy can furnish their quota of imps for
such a business." - James Madison, Letter to Bradford, January 1774

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity
been on trial What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride
and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both,
superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison

“Washington frequently alluded to Providence in his private correspondence. But the name of Christ, in any correspondence whatsoever, does not appear anywhere in his many letters to friends and associates throughout his life."
-- Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion (1963) pp. 74-75, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church." Had Washington been a pious Christian, he would have at least mentioned the name of Christ!

"All national institutions of churches appear to me no other than human
inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and
profit." - Thomas Paine

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation
and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger
with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change
them." - Abraham Lincoln, to Judge JS. Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's
death

"Mr. Lincoln was not a Christian." - Mary Todd Lincoln

"Dr. Rush told me (he had it from Asa Green) that when the clergy addressed General Washington, on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice."
-- Thomas Jefferson, quoted from Jefferson's Works, Vol. iv., p. 572. (Asa Green "was probably the Reverend Ashbel Green, who was chaplain to congress during Washington's administration." -- Farrell Till in "The Christian Nation Myth.")

"I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never
disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism
makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether
I am one or not." - preface, Reason the Only Oracle of Man by Ethan Allen

"I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and
distorted by religion." - James Buchanan: from Rufus K. Noyes, Views of
Religion, also James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief

"No falsehood is so fatal as that which is made an article of faith." -
Thomas Paine

"The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense." - Thomas
Paine

Flexner: Terminology of Enlightenment-Era Deism
"That he was not just striking a popular attitude as a politician is revealed by the absence of of the usual Christian terms: he did not mention Christ or even use the word 'God.' Following the phraseology of the philosophical Deism he professed, he referred to 'the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men,' to 'the benign parent of the human race.'"
-- James Thomas Flexner, describing Washington's first Inaugural Address, in George Washington and the New Nation (1783-1793) (1970) p. 184, quoted from Ed and Michael Buckner, "Quotations that Support the Separation of State and Church"

Nothing you have provided here in the way of 'evidence' is verifiable. Most of which have been quoted from an unknown source. Did you not notice how I quoted from verifiable sources in that when i provided you with a source you could click on a link and follow to the surce material I quoted. As for the source material itself it varys from the president's own personal historical foundation, a website dedicated to the perservation and compliation of such data or someother source that can be checked on.

Why is that? are you not aware that such information if true can be multisourced? Only oneside commentary has to be sole sourced from some deep dark dank volume of some book no one has ever heard of.

If you want to have this discussion then please use the resources provided by the internet, quote them and leave links, so we can have a proper discussion.

Because right now in all you had to say, can be dismissed as a fallacy of false authority.

Drich, did you notice few people are being quoted and requoted. There were more people in the continental congress that Franklin, Jefferson and Madison. Never hear them quote William Penn do you? Doesn't fit their narrative. And Thomas Paine, really? He was a pamphleteer. That's like saying Michael Moore represents the mainstream opinion of congress.

FWIW, Johnny Appleseed was a Swedenborgian.