Posts: 122
Threads: 5
Joined: October 22, 2014
Reputation:
1
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 8:40 am
(October 26, 2014 at 1:24 am)FifthElement Wrote: So datc , did you ever read the article I suggested on page 5 about infinite regress or did you just choose not to comment ?
Here is the link (again):
About Infinite Regress
What do you think about it ?  There may be an infinite number of moments in time (such as stretching backward to infinity), as well as an infinite number of abstracta, such as numbers; but not an infinite number of real objects, such as atoms or angels. I wrote:
Quote:The quantity of real objects is measured by actual numbers. But "infinity" is a mathematical abstraction; it's not number.
Heywood objected that God's creating angels "for eternity" or say, every hour, would result in an infinitude of angels. This isn't a good example. Angels already exist in time. God cannot start at t = -infinity, because -infinity is not a date. But if God starts at a determinate date, there is a finite number of hours to pass through from it to arrive at today. Hence, the number of angels would in any case remain finite.
Posts: 13901
Threads: 263
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 8:51 am
(October 26, 2014 at 8:40 am)datc Wrote: There may be an infinite number of moments in time (such as stretching backward to infinity), as well as an infinite number of abstracta, such as numbers; but not an infinite number of real objects, such as atoms or angels.
If there is infinite space and infinite time why not infinite matter?
Why not an infinite number of universes?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 9:00 am
Maybe God has a second time dimension which is orthogonal to ours, and sees our timeline as we do a direction in space. Just sayin...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 3817
Threads: 5
Joined: November 19, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 9:48 am
(October 26, 2014 at 7:42 am)DramaQueen Wrote: In the latter more inclusive definition = comparative religion, philosophy and unbiased study of religion in general
That's not theology.
the·ol·o·gy
THēˈäləjē/
noun
- the study of the nature of God and religious belief.
- religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Posts: 3680
Threads: 52
Joined: August 13, 2014
Reputation:
19
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 9:49 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2014 at 9:50 am by DramaQueen.)
Okay 
:p
Posts: 2737
Threads: 51
Joined: March 7, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 10:11 am
(October 26, 2014 at 8:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: (October 26, 2014 at 8:40 am)datc Wrote: There may be an infinite number of moments in time (such as stretching backward to infinity), as well as an infinite number of abstracta, such as numbers; but not an infinite number of real objects, such as atoms or angels.
If there is infinite space and infinite time why not infinite matter?
Why not an infinite number of universes?
If time is quantized....that is if the moments of time are countable, you could match one angel up to each moment of time. If you had infinite moments of time, you would have an infinite number of angels.
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 10:15 am
(October 25, 2014 at 8:37 pm)Heywood Wrote: If pressed most atheist would claim that abiogenesis happens or has happened somewhere. At least that is my experience after countless discussion with them. Maybe I am wrong...maybe atheists secretly believe there is an intelligent agent out there somewhere....that creates life.
Must you cling to such simplistic binaries even in the face of an actual correction?
As I said, this isn't a distinct believe/not believe at all thing: what you're seeing from atheists is recognition that abiogenesis is the theory which currently has the most support. The smart man apportions his belief in accordance with the evidence, and simply acknowledging that abogenesis is miles more supported than, say, creation is very different from complete conviction that it occurred.
When pressed, I doubt you'll find too many of us that won't admit that ultimately, we don't yet know the answer. But then, your whole position is kind of malformed anyway, since you're trying to claim that all atheists believe something, when we aren't some monolithic bloc with a singular view. We're disparate people who happen to have the same position on a single claim.
Quote:Anyways all you have regarding abiogenesis is an unproven hypothesis. If you believe it happened, you believe in something which has not be shown to be true. Surgenator's claim that atheists don't believe things which are not shown to be true is clearly false. Why you want to defend a claim which is clearly wrong is perplexing.
You're not very good with nuance, are you? 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 122
Threads: 5
Joined: October 22, 2014
Reputation:
1
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2014 at 3:08 pm by datc.)
(October 26, 2014 at 8:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: (October 26, 2014 at 8:40 am)datc Wrote: There may be an infinite number of moments in time (such as stretching backward to infinity), as well as an infinite number of abstracta, such as numbers; but not an infinite number of real objects, such as atoms or angels. If there is infinite space and infinite time why not infinite matter?
Why not an infinite number of universes? I find this unintelligible.
(October 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)datc Wrote: (October 26, 2014 at 8:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: If there is infinite space and infinite time why not infinite matter?
Why not an infinite number of universes? I find this unintelligible. In his book Reasonable Faith, William Lane Craig marshals many arguments in favor of the kalam argument for the existence of God.
Kalam depends on the assertion that time cannot go back in the past to infinity.
I do not like kalam and think that Craig is wrong to think that the past cannot be inifnite.
But his arguments in this book are quite alright when used to show that the infinite number of real objects (as opposed to moments in time) cannot exist.
Posts: 3817
Threads: 5
Joined: November 19, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 3:09 pm
(October 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)datc Wrote: (October 26, 2014 at 8:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: If there is infinite space and infinite time why not infinite matter?
Why not an infinite number of universes? I find this unintelligible.
(October 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)datc Wrote: I find this unintelligible. In his book Reasonable Faith, William Lane Craig marshals many arguments in favor of the kalam argument for the existence of God.
Kalam depends on the assertion that time cannot go back in the past to infinity.
I do not like kalam and think that Craig is wrong to think that the past cannot be inifnite.
But his arguments in this book are quite alright when used to show that the infinite number of real objects (as opposed to moments in time) cannot exist.
That's not at all surprising.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Posts: 1065
Threads: 6
Joined: June 19, 2014
Reputation:
15
RE: Why Something Rather Than Nothing?
October 26, 2014 at 4:14 pm
(October 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm)datc Wrote: (October 26, 2014 at 8:51 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: If there is infinite space and infinite time why not infinite matter?
Why not an infinite number of universes? I find this unintelligible.
Sorry, what is so special about matter that requires it to be finite?
|
