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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 29, 2014 at 2:15 am
(October 21, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(October 21, 2014 at 12:06 pm)Believer Wrote: So how can a book that was written 500Bc state that the world is a "globe" and "spherical" But this was only believed 100s of years later when it was mentioned by scientists after years of saying the world was flat.
Fuck you, the book said "circle of the earth," not globe or sphere, don't lie. Additionally, there is evidence to suggest that some knowledge of the earth's true shape was possessed by cultures at around the time that the bible was written, using observations rather than god magic.
Quote:Years ago scientists believed there was no beginning to the universe, it was always infinite, then 100s of years later they now confirm what the bible had always said, it had a beginning
Best quit misrepresenting science then, because the big bang merely represents a change in state to our current universe, not the beginning of one. Maybe know what you're talking about, before shooting off your mouth?
Quote:How can something just create itself from nothingness?
You're right, how did god do that?
Quote:An Expanding Universe:
The prophet Isaiah who lived almost 3,000 years ago stated
"It is He that . . . stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in." [40:22]
Scientists are beginning to understand that the universe is expanding, or stretching out. At least seven times the Scriptures clearly tell us that God stretches out the heavens like a curtain.
I don't find retrofitting bible verses to be a very fun game. Is there any indication from any christian scholar or source that they knew the universe was expanding before science discovered this? I mean, that's what you would expect if this bible verse so clearly indicates what you say it does, right?
Also, don't pretend for a second that if scientists discovered that the universe was actually contracting tomorrow, you wouldn't turn on a fucking dime and find bible passages to confirm that, too.
Quote:Ok i agree, the Bible uses words that you could all laugh at, but the words and how we describe things today will be laughable in 3000 years from now. Open your mind before you criticise, i believe in science, science is fact, but it doesn't disprove God? It supports it.
Depends on how willing to bend over backwards to make the two compatible you are. I, however, am not nearly so credulous or dishonest to do so.
Hey, mind telling me why the bible mentions the "four corners of the earth," in Isaiah, if it knew the earth was round, while we're at it?
after all this time, still asking little boy questions. what a dumb ass.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 29, 2014 at 12:29 pm
(October 21, 2014 at 1:03 pm)Jenny A Wrote:
(October 21, 2014 at 12:06 pm)Believer Wrote: So how can a book that was written 500Bc state that the world is a "globe" and "spherical" But this was only believed 100s of years later when it was mentioned by scientists after years of saying the world was flat.
Others have covered the problems with what you say the Bible says. I'll take on the claim that no scientist in the five and six hundreds following the OT knew the earth was round:
The Greeks formulated the idea that the earth was spherical in the 6th to 5th centuries B.C.
Quote: Pythagoras (6th century BC) was among those said to have originated the idea, but this may reflect the ancient Greek practice of ascribing every discovery to one or another of their ancient wise men. Some idea of the sphericity of the Earth seems to have been known to both Parmenides and Empedocles in the 5th century BC,and although the idea cannot reliably be ascribed to Pythagoras, it may, nevertheless have been formulated in the Pythagorean school in the 5th century BC although some disagree.[14] After the 5th century BC, no Greek writer of repute thought the world was anything but round.
Plato simply takes the spherical nature of the earth for grant it. Aristole provides reasons for thinking it so:
Quote:Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:
Every portion of the Earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere.
Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round.
By about 240 BC the Greeks had done better than observe the earth is round, Eratosthenes, estimated Earth's circumference with an error of only about 5-15%. He used trigonometry, not scripture.
The Greeks didn't keep this knowledge to themselves either. Pliny (23-79 AD) and Cicero (106-47 BC) both refer to the round earth as a matter of common knowledge.
Nor is this only a Western bit on knowledge:
Quote:The works of the classical Indian astronomer and mathematician, Aryabhatta (476-550 AD), deal with the sphericity of the Earth and the motion of the planets. The final two parts of his Sanskrit magnum opus, the Aryabhatiya, which were named the Kalakriya ("reckoning of time") and the Gol ("sphere"), state that the Earth is spherical and that its circumference is 4,967 yojanas. In modern units this is 39,968 km (24,835 mi), close to the current equatorial value of 40,075 km (24,901 mi).
It is a myth that most people thought the earth was flat at the time of Columbus. Columbus proposed that the earth was smaller than previously thought. He was wrong, and if North and South America hadn't been in the way, he'd have died trying to reach India.
Except that the book of Isaiah was written in the 7th century B.C., which makes your point kinda moot.
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 29, 2014 at 3:00 pm (This post was last modified: October 29, 2014 at 4:14 pm by Jenny A.)
(October 29, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
(October 21, 2014 at 1:03 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Others have covered the problems with what you say the Bible says. I'll take on the claim that no scientist in the five and six hundreds following the OT knew the earth was round:
The Greeks formulated the idea that the earth was spherical in the 6th to 5th centuries B.C.
By about 240 BC the Greeks had done better than observe the earth is round, Eratosthenes, estimated Earth's circumference with an error of only about 5-15%. He used trigonometry, not scripture.
The Greeks didn't keep this knowledge to themselves either. Pliny (23-79 AD) and Cicero (106-47 BC) both refer to the round earth as a matter of common knowledge.
It is a myth that most people thought the earth was flat at the time of Columbus. Columbus proposed that the earth was smaller than previously thought. He was wrong, and if North and South America hadn't been in the way, he'd have died trying to reach India.
Except that the book of Isaiah was written in the 7th century B.C., which makes your point kinda moot.
Actually no. Isaiah was not written in the 600s B.C.E. Most scholars accept that the first 39 chapters in Isaiah are based on Isaiah ben Amoz, who lived in the Kingdom of Judah during the reigns of four kings from the mid to late 8th century BCE. However, he did not record the book in the 700s. It was probably actually written in the 500s by others.
Verse 40:22 (the verse in question) is not even based on Isaiah be Amoz and was written at the earliest during the Babylonian captivity, in the 500s, but more likely later yet after the exile had ended. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
Believer's date, which I addressed, is fairly accurate. Yours is not.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 31, 2014 at 11:49 am
(October 29, 2014 at 3:00 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Actually no. Isaiah was not written in the 600s B.C.E. Most scholars accept that the first 39 chapters in Isaiah are based on Isaiah ben Amoz, who lived in the Kingdom of Judah during the reigns of four kings from the mid to late 8th century BCE. However, he did not record the book in the 700s. It was probably actually written in the 500s by others.
It always seems that as it relates to the Bible, the guy who's name is on a particular book, never actually wrote it. why is this? This is never said about Plato, or Herodotus... strange.
In any case, most scholars don't need to accept anything, the Bible tells you who Isaiah is in the first sentence of the book.
Quote:Isaiah 1
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
he also appears in 2nd Kings and 2nd Chronicles
(October 29, 2014 at 3:00 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Verse 40:22 (the verse in question) is not even based on Isaiah be Amoz and was written at the earliest during the Babylonian captivity, in the 500s, but more likely later yet after the exile had ended. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
Believer's date, which I addressed, is fairly accurate. Yours is not.
The book of Isaiah is a book of prophecy and therefore would only be accepted by the Hebrews if it was written by a vindicated Prophet. Take Isaiah 40:3 for instance.
Quote:Isaiah 40
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
This prophecy is clearly speaking of John the Baptist, and had to be written by a Prophet, in this case Isaiah.
As a side note, to be accepted as a Prophet meant your prophecies had to have a 100% success rate, anything less, meant getting stoned.
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 31, 2014 at 11:51 am
(October 31, 2014 at 11:49 am)Huggy74 Wrote: It always seems that as it relates to the Bible, the guy who's name is on a particular book, never actually wrote it. why is this?
Because it's true.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 31, 2014 at 12:04 pm
(October 31, 2014 at 11:51 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:
(October 31, 2014 at 11:49 am)Huggy74 Wrote: It always seems that as it relates to the Bible, the guy who's name is on a particular book, never actually wrote it. why is this?
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