(November 5, 2014 at 8:27 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Beccs, I like your new sig

Thank you.

I just modified something I found on Facebook.

(November 5, 2014 at 8:32 pm)Lek Wrote:

(November 5, 2014 at 8:17 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: There is as much evidence for this being an experience from the xian god as there is for any god that has ever existed, that is to say: none.
I could just as easily claim that this is Odin calling her to Valhalla and I would be just as justified in believing it as the xian god, again, that is to say: not at all.

If you begin with the assumption that there is no God, then you'll come up with the conclusion that this experience didn't involve God.

If this is how your god chooses to reveal himself then he is truly petty and cruel.

(November 5, 2014 at 8:34 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: If this is how your god chooses to reveal himself then he is truly petty and cruel.

Petty and cruel for telling her in a dream that her father had died?

(November 5, 2014 at 8:32 pm)Lek Wrote: If you begin with the assumption that there is no God, then you'll come up with the conclusion that this experience didn't involve God.

If you begin with the assumption that there is no Odin, then you'll come up with the conclusion that this experience didn't involve Odin.

(November 4, 2014 at 10:59 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(November 4, 2014 at 1:06 pm)LostDays Wrote: Definitely doesn't change or alter my belief in Gods.. (Still don't believe and never will)

But would change and alter my beliefs with respect to human existence I guess..? I always come back to Science at the end of the day.. I sit and ponder what the point to human existence is all the time and I find the answer that 'Life is what you make of it' still very unsatisfying for many reasons one of the biggest ones being that I work with people who have mental health issues and deal with suicidal ideation a lot.

All I can ever tell these people is that this existence is the only one we have, and we need to make the best of it while we are still here. These people are severely depressed and don't have the same outlook on life as a lot of us.. and it is hard for me to try and find reasons to tell people to keep hanging on.. Some of the things these people have been through is just absolute insanity... I don't know how you help someone re-discover that life is worth living when some really horrible things have happened... I guess I see why certain people resort to religion? After some of the stories I've heard from these people that is all that they have to bring them comfort... How can I bring words of comfort for these people without imposing my Atheist views?

That seems like a dilemma alright. Personally I should prefer to find a way to relate that didn't feel false and therefore condescending. I wonder if hollow platitudes -especially those in which we don't believe ourselves- really give anyone 'comfort'. If the circumstances were reversed, would you actually want the person charged with helping you to resort to trite sentiments they did not believe? I would imagine the most important thing you have to offer is a real encounter, an authentic relationship. I guess it depends on what your role is and how your duties are described. If you're charged with keeping people calm and non-confrontational, perhaps you have no choice. If you do have a choice, you'd have to do what feels to you like the right thing.

Exactly! As someone who has mental health issues themselves, it was the very reason I got into the field, being genuine is #1 for me. I refuse to ever spew fake BS to these people because I've had the same fake BS spewed to me during my road through treatment. I want to make the experience better for them than what I had. I want to revolutionize the mental health field in any way I can lol!

Is it an insane thought to want to eventually develop some sort of health care facility where we cater not only to physical health, but mental and spiritual health as well! I know so many people whose conditions worsen due to how unpleasant the Hospital conditions are! Imagine if a Hospital became a place people actually wanted to go to receive treatment.

What sorts of spiritual practices or things do Atheists or non-religious people want to see available for them in a health care setting like that? I know Hospitals have chapels for religious people to pray... well what about us non-religious/spiritual folk?? I'm just super curious!

(November 5, 2014 at 8:32 pm)Lek Wrote:

(November 5, 2014 at 8:17 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: There is as much evidence for this being an experience from the xian god as there is for any god that has ever existed, that is to say: none.
I could just as easily claim that this is Odin calling her to Valhalla and I would be just as justified in believing it as the xian god, again, that is to say: not at all.

If you begin with the assumption that there is no God, then you'll come up with the conclusion that this experience didn't involve God.

No. It's more like 'what other explanation could there be that doesn't automatically involve bullshit as its premise?'

(November 5, 2014 at 8:46 pm)Lek Wrote:

(November 5, 2014 at 8:34 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: If this is how your god chooses to reveal himself then he is truly petty and cruel.

Petty and cruel for telling her in a dream that her father had died?

A month after he'd died? Why not just before? Why not during? Hell, why tell her at all? What does he gain? Here's an idea, why not tell her in another format that would mean the message couldn't be misconstrued as a coincidence similar to if he'd said nothing at all? What about that?

Again, I have to continually remind myself that I am conversing with adults here. The absurdity and silliness is just so childish.

(November 6, 2014 at 12:54 am)LostDays Wrote: Is it an insane thought to want to eventually develop some sort of health care facility where we cater not only to physical health, but mental and spiritual health as well! I know so many people whose conditions worsen due to how unpleasant the Hospital conditions are! Imagine if a Hospital became a place people actually wanted to go to receive treatment.

What sorts of spiritual practices or things do Atheists or non-religious people want to see available for them in a health care setting like that? I know Hospitals have chapels for religious people to pray... well what about us non-religious/spiritual folk?? I'm just super curious!

As for your first paragraph. In Austria, where I live, there's always a resident psychologist attached to the hospitals. They deal with mental crisis of patients as well as with their relatives if they're in shock. It's not in any way perfect, but they can ring the alarm bell if something's seriously wrong.

As for your second paragraph, personally I'm not a spiritual person anymore. I used to be into neo paganism for a while in my twenties, after leaving christianity behind. My best friend ist still a person, who considers herself to be a witch. So, asked today, I really wouldn't know what kind of spiritual facilities would interest me. My major problem during hospital stints was always to be bored stiff. So, some kind of entertainment would be nice.

(November 6, 2014 at 12:54 am)LostDays Wrote: Exactly! As someone who has mental health issues themselves, it was the very reason I got into the field, being genuine is #1 for me. I refuse to ever spew fake BS to these people because I've had the same fake BS spewed to me during my road through treatment. I want to make the experience better for them than what I had. I want to revolutionize the mental health field in any way I can lol!

Is it an insane thought to want to eventually develop some sort of health care facility where we cater not only to physical health, but mental and spiritual health as well! I know so many people whose conditions worsen due to how unpleasant the Hospital conditions are! Imagine if a Hospital became a place people actually wanted to go to receive treatment.

What sorts of spiritual practices or things do Atheists or non-religious people want to see available for them in a health care setting like that? I know Hospitals have chapels for religious people to pray... well what about us non-religious/spiritual folk?? I'm just super curious!

Perhaps a neutral analogy would be helpful, something both we and the religious could make use of to understand what is happening to us. Depression could be thought of as a reboot. Some functions are no longer supported at this time. Much of what we experience consciously is supported by unconscious processes and many of those are down. The religious can read in God's plan here and turn it over to Him. The rest of us can benefit from realizing what we are used to thinking about ourselves never was completely our own accomplishment. We are all far more dependent on the forces below which we take for granted until they reboot. How long this will take is not up to us and there isn't anything we can do to move it along. Let the religious have their higher power, we can make do with recognizing deeper powers below which support our conscious functioning. What can be frightening can better be endured if we are waiting with a purpose while also receiving the best available medical interventions.