In This Mind Wrote:When recounting what happened to me, I've been asked 'well, why were you there in the first place?' and had it heavily implied 'that's what you get for acting like a man'.

>_> gah, I don't know, maybe you were doing your job, women can have those now.

(July 8, 2010 at 5:52 pm)Cego_Colher Wrote: gah, I don't know, maybe you were doing your job, women can have those now.

But that's the mindset some people have. I wasn't married and popping out kids and spending my time in the kitchen cooking and cleaning for my husband while wearing a nice conservative skirt and blouse and pearls, and I had the nerve to go to college and develop my brain and pursue a career in something I was dang good at, and did I mention I used to play hockey of all sports? And I stopped going to church.

Obviously, on some level I deserved to be attacked, because everyone knows that rape doesn't happen to Nice Girls ™. If we were just Nice Girls ™ we would never have to fear being raped.

We should just take some responsibility for ourselves and then the menfolks wouldn't have to put us in our place. After all, as the good book says:

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

1 Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

In This Mind Wrote:Obviously, on some level I deserved to be attacked, because everyone knows that rape doesn't happen to Nice Girls ™. If we were just Nice Girls ™ we would never have to fear being raped.

right, bad things never happen to good people. Job must have been a terrible guy.
By Nice Girls 'they' must mean women who get married, take care of all the housework, give birth to boys and of course never refuse her husband sex and if she does refuse, she shouldn't cry rape. oops, Nice Girls can get raped too. (of course it wouldn't been seen as such according to the bible.)

I don't see anything at all wrong with objectifying women, or anyone. We're animals. But because we're human, we're capable of seeing each other as sex objects and as anything else.

(July 8, 2010 at 7:13 pm)Godhead Wrote: I don't see anything at all wrong with objectifying women, or anyone. We're animals. But because we're human, we're capable of seeing each other as sex objects and as anything else.

Yep. Poe.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

In this mind -

This thread is about a very specific topic, and you've shown up merely to accuse me of being a poe.

(July 8, 2010 at 10:41 pm)Godhead Wrote: In this mind -

This thread is about a very specific topic, and you've shown up merely to accuse me of being a poe.

I don't think you're a poe, you are a very different type of joke.

(July 8, 2010 at 4:13 pm)In This Mind Wrote: And that's the point. The clothes don't matter. Just being a woman is enough.

When recounting what happened to me, I've been asked 'well, why were you there in the first place?' and had it heavily implied 'that's what you get for acting like a man'.

That's a pretty fucked up way of assessing the situation.

(July 8, 2010 at 4:13 pm)In This Mind Wrote: By claiming a woman bears some responsibility for what happened, what you are doing is justifying the rape and absolving the rapist of some level of blame. It's saying that it's a lesser crime to rape a woman in sexy clothes than it is to rape a woman in ugly clothes. It's saying that it is more understandable to rape a woman in high heels than it is to rape a woman in sneakers.

And this is exactly what people are not saying in this thread. What me and others are saying is that women who wear revealing clothing may attract attention, and should safeguard against any ill that can happen from this. Some is unavoidable, but that doesn't mean all of it is.

Just because people die in car accidents everyday doesn't mean you shouldn't wear your seat belt.

(July 8, 2010 at 4:13 pm)In This Mind Wrote: The only person with any level of control over whether or not an attempt at rape occurs is the rapist. Thus the only person who bears any level of responsibility for the rape is the rapist.

That doesn't mean that you can't have control over the situation should it occur. This is why safeguarding against and diffusing issues is key.

(July 8, 2010 at 4:13 pm)In This Mind Wrote: I should be allowed to wear sexy clothes on my way home from a party at night without fear. It is not my behavior that needs to change, but the behavior of the rapist. I did not incite the rape.

Yes you should. Unfortunately we don't live in a fantasy world where no one gets hurt. It's not your fault if something happens to you, but more often than not, there are ways of avoiding situations and staying alert to your surroundings. That's the only thing I'm talking about.

(July 8, 2010 at 11:28 pm)theVOID Wrote:

(July 8, 2010 at 10:41 pm)Godhead Wrote: In this mind -

This thread is about a very specific topic, and you've shown up merely to accuse me of being a poe.

I don't think you're a poe, you are a very different type of joke.

Void -

That has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

(July 9, 2010 at 12:38 am)tavarish Wrote: And this is exactly what people are not saying in this thread. What me and others are saying is that women who wear revealing clothing may attract attention, and should safeguard against any ill that can happen from this. Some is unavoidable, but that doesn't mean all of it is.

So, what you are saying it that it IS my responsibility to be a 'nice girl' and thus avoid being raped. Because 'nice girls' who don't wear revealing clothes, don't get raped.

A woman shouldn't do anything to attract attention to herself, because then she is contributing to her own rape. That is what you are saying. A woman has a responsibility not to attract attention to herself, otherwise she will be raped. That is what you are saying.

Quote:That doesn't mean that you can't have control over the situation should it occur. This is why safeguarding against and diffusing issues is key.

So be a 'nice girl' and it won't happen.

Quote:Yes you should. Unfortunately we don't live in a fantasy world where no one gets hurt. It's not your fault if something happens to you, but more often than not, there are ways of avoiding situations and staying alert to your surroundings. That's the only thing I'm talking about.

So, if I'd been more alert, I wouldn't have been attacked. I shouldn't have been focusing on doing my job, I should have been focusing on assuming all men are rapists. That is what you are saying.