Right, because you'd have to be stupid to follow USDA guidelines, which for many years told everyone to back up the fucking truck and load up on carbohydrates like bread and grains (to the tune of 8-11 servings every day), which, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, is a really horrible idea.

But yeah, we should have all known better. Because reasons.

(November 24, 2014 at 11:58 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Right, because you'd have to be stupid to follow USDA guidelines, which for many years told everyone to back up the fucking truck and load up on carbohydrates like bread and grains (to the tune of 8-11 servings every day), which, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, is a really horrible idea.

But yeah, we should have all known better. Because reasons.

Sadly it does seem that most people are just plain stupid, or they want to hear what they want to hear.

(November 25, 2014 at 12:03 am)psychoslice Wrote:

(November 24, 2014 at 11:58 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Right, because you'd have to be stupid to follow USDA guidelines, which for many years told everyone to back up the fucking truck and load up on carbohydrates like bread and grains (to the tune of 8-11 servings every day), which, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, is a really horrible idea.

But yeah, we should have all known better. Because reasons.

Sadly it does seem that most people are just plain stupid, or they want to hear what they want to hear.

How is that in any way, in any possible universe, to be taken as anything but smug superiority?

How is that a reasonable response at all?

(November 25, 2014 at 12:05 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(November 25, 2014 at 12:03 am)psychoslice Wrote: Sadly it does seem that most people are just plain stupid, or they want to hear what they want to hear.

How is that in any way, in any possible universe, to be taken as anything but smug superiority?

How is that a reasonable response at all?

As I said, its sad, are you over weight ?.

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Data from the Australian Diabetes, Obesity and Lifestyle (AusDiab) study indicate that the total direct cost for overweight and obesity in 2005 was $21 billion ($6.5 billion for overweight and $14.5 billion for obesity).

(November 25, 2014 at 12:20 am)psychoslice Wrote:

(November 25, 2014 at 12:05 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: How is that in any way, in any possible universe, to be taken as anything but smug superiority?

How is that a reasonable response at all?

As I said, its sad, are you over weight ?.

That doesn't really have any bearing on the discussion, does it?

The fact of the matter is this: the american public was advised by the USDA to eat in ways that we now know are quite unhealthy - the advice was to eat approximately twice the bread and grains that are now advisable, and that much carbohydrate demonstrably leads to both obesity and risk of diabetes.

Many people followed this advice in good faith, and became overweight and sick. Recent science tells us it's extremely difficult to take off that weight and successfully keep it off.

Yet, your position is that people are too stupid to eat properly. How the actual fuck are they supposed to know this when the authority tasked with providing that information gave such horrible advice (in hindsight), and now many of those same people have irreversible health conditions?

I expect another reply that reeks of smug superiority.

(November 25, 2014 at 12:32 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(November 25, 2014 at 12:20 am)psychoslice Wrote: As I said, its sad, are you over weight ?.

That doesn't really have any bearing on the discussion, does it?

The fact of the matter is this: the american public was advised by the USDA to eat in ways that we now know are quite unhealthy - the advice was to eat approximately twice the bread and grains that are now advisable, and that much carbohydrate demonstrably leads to both obesity and risk of diabetes.

Many people followed this advice in good faith, and became overweight and sick. Recent science tells us it's extremely difficult to take off that weight and successfully keep it off.

Yet, your position is that people are too stupid to eat properly. How the actual fuck are they supposed to know this when the authority tasked with providing that information gave such horrible advice (in hindsight), and now many of those same people have irreversible health conditions?

I expect another reply that reeks of smug superiority.

I only reply the way I am replies to, the thing is there has been a heel of lot of information about obesity and how to avoid it, this has been going on for years, well at least here in Australia. As I said, many only hear what they wan to hear, food can be a drug to these, as anything can be. If we carry on feeling sorry and making up excuses for these people we are only adding to the dangers of their health and the health of generations to come. I will not patronise these people just so to not hurt their feeling, its far better to have your feeling hurt than to die of a obesity related disease.

(November 24, 2014 at 11:53 pm)psychoslice Wrote: Maybe their a bit backward like you, and haven't got the intelligence to know better, you would have to be living under a giant pretzel not to know about sugars and fats. MMmmm pretzel.

The advice they were given by health professionals since the 1970's was fundamental flawed. And the reason why grains got to be such a big portion of the food pyramid is because of lobby groups that represented the corn and other grains industry and lobbied the USA government to make grains the staple of the diet, instead of say vegetables. All other health guides - Japan, Australia, UK, etc, all used the USA food pyramid as their basis.

As to your comment that I'm "backwards" - I think you have to carefully consider your position. I changed my position based on recent research done by the experts. I changed it when I found out that hormones control hunger - a fact that wasn't known in the 1970's, when the outdated guides to healthy eating were made.

Even today the advice isn't clear enough, not at all. In a previous TV campaign here in Australia it was called "Swap It, Don't Stop It" - in my view that advice was dead wrong: to prevent obesity requires permanent improvements in lifestyle and particularly in eating habits. Instead the campaign used the wrong advice that's been given to the public since the 1970's which is that you only need to "cut down on the luxuries". Doing that will reduce the rate of weight gain, but it certainly won't stop it or reverse it.

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(November 25, 2014 at 12:20 am)psychoslice Wrote: Data from the Australian Diabetes, Obesity and Lifestyle (AusDiab) study indicate that the total direct cost for overweight and obesity in 2005 was $21 billion ($6.5 billion for overweight and $14.5 billion for obesity).

You could have got a more recent figure from my essay:

"The estimated annual costs in Australia directly attributed to obesity related non-communicable disease is AUD21 billion (King, Grunseit, O’Hara & Bauman, 2013)." (Baxter, 2014). That figure does not include pre-obese people.

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Also, I'm still waiting for you to explain to me under your theory how it is possible that the weight it took a lifetime for a person to gain that once lost can be fully regained in just 1-2 years? I gave you two clear specific examples, e.g. the 650-lbs virgin was around 30 when he went on a serious lifestyle change to loose 400lbs, which took 2 years of tremendous effort. Following that he regained 300lbs in just 2 years. How is that possible? Do you actually think that if he had not started losing weight in the first place that over the four years that followed he would have gained an additional 600lbs??

(November 25, 2014 at 1:54 am)Aractus Wrote:

(November 24, 2014 at 11:53 pm)psychoslice Wrote: Maybe their a bit backward like you, and haven't got the intelligence to know better, you would have to be living under a giant pretzel not to know about sugars and fats. MMmmm pretzel.

The advice they were given by health professionals since the 1970's was fundamental flawed. And the reason why grains got to be such a big portion of the food pyramid is because of lobby groups that represented the corn and other grains industry and lobbied the USA government to make grains the staple of the diet, instead of say vegetables. All other health guides - Japan, Australia, UK, etc, all used the USA food pyramid as their basis.

As to your comment that I'm "backwards" - I think you have to carefully consider your position. I changed my position based on recent research done by the experts. I changed it when I found out that hormones control hunger - a fact that wasn't known in the 1970's, when the outdated guides to healthy eating were made.

Even today the advice isn't clear enough, not at all. In a previous TV campaign here in Australia it was called "Swap It, Don't Stop It" - in my view that advice was dead wrong: to prevent obesity requires permanent improvements in lifestyle and particularly in eating habits. Instead the campaign used the wrong advice that's been given to the public since the 1970's which is that you only need to "cut down on the luxuries". Doing that will reduce the rate of weight gain, but it certainly won't stop it or reverse it.

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(November 25, 2014 at 12:20 am)psychoslice Wrote: Data from the Australian Diabetes, Obesity and Lifestyle (AusDiab) study indicate that the total direct cost for overweight and obesity in 2005 was $21 billion ($6.5 billion for overweight and $14.5 billion for obesity).

You could have got a more recent figure from my essay:

"The estimated annual costs in Australia directly attributed to obesity related non-communicable disease is AUD21 billion (King, Grunseit, O’Hara & Bauman, 2013)." (Baxter, 2014). That figure does not include pre-obese people.

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Also, I'm still waiting for you to explain to me under your theory how it is possible that the weight it took a lifetime for a person to gain that once lost can be fully regained in just 1-2 years? I gave you two clear specific examples, e.g. the 650-lbs virgin was around 30 when he went on a serious lifestyle change to loose 400lbs, which took 2 years of tremendous effort. Following that he regained 300lbs in just 2 years. How is that possible? Do you actually think that if he had not started losing weight in the first place that over the four years that followed he would have gained an additional 600lbs??

You believe what you read, I don't, these people who say that they have tried every diet and lost nothing, are most times lying, they may have tried the diet or sensible way of eating, but that is where it ends, they only tried, which is useless.

(November 25, 2014 at 2:24 am)psychoslice Wrote: You believe what you read, I don't, these people who say that they have tried every diet and lost nothing, are most times lying, they may have tried the diet or sensible way of eating, but that is where it ends, they only tried, which is useless.

*(EMPHASIS ADDED)

Can you at least use the HIDE tags if you're going to quote an entire reply of that length?

You haven't answered my question because you can't. Magda Szubanski lost 36kg on Jenny Craig - that put her down to at least a non-obese weight. She is 53 years old at present - so in November 2008 when she joined Jenny Craig she was 48 at the time. She weighted 110 kg - so that's an average weight gain of less than 2.3 kg per year from the time she was born. Would we agree upon that?

She lost 36 kg by July the following year. Then within about a year she put almost all the weight back on, and was dropped as a spokesperson for the company. At 2.3 kg per year average weight gain, it should have taken her at least 15 years to regain the weight by your explanation that obesity is simply caused by over eating. How did she regain 15 years worth of weight gain in just 1 year? How do you explain that?

My point is that obesity is a public health matter and not an individual matter. It is caused by factors that are well outside of personal responsibility. We now know, for instance, that the mother's weight and diet during pregnancy pre-programs the infant to become more susceptible to becoming obese both as a baby and child and later in life as an adult. Obesity prevention has to start at pregnancy.

Hi Aractus, sorry I don't know how use the hide tag. Yes that may be so with that women, but that's just one out of thousands, what you are saying may have truth in it, but you must admit that food has a lot to do with obesity. Hennery the eighth loved his food, and so he suffered from bad gout, I would say Napoleon who suffered from ulcers loved his food also. You see the richer the country the fatter the people, and also many other diseases.