Ronald Reagan has left the building.

(December 29, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Elskidor Wrote: Ronald Reagan has left the building.

Yes exactly. My challenge stands - lets see how RonaldReagansGhost666 fares with the odds stacked heavily against him/her.

(December 29, 2014 at 6:20 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 29, 2014 at 6:14 pm)whateverist Wrote: Hell, even you wouldn't believe this shit without a healthy fear of damnation. But how useful have you found it to warn atheists of damnation as a way of persuading them of God's existence?

Threatening with eternal damnation seems about as useful as aiming an empty water pistol at us.

But if he fills it with holy water ...

(December 29, 2014 at 6:27 pm)JesusChristLover Wrote:

(December 29, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Elskidor Wrote: Ronald Reagan has left the building.

Yes exactly. My challenge stands - lets see how RonaldReagansGhost666 fares with the odds stacked heavily against him/her.

(December 29, 2014 at 6:27 pm)JesusChristLover Wrote:

(December 29, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Elskidor Wrote: Ronald Reagan has left the building.

Yes exactly. My challenge stands - lets see how RonaldReagansGhost666 fares with the odds stacked heavily against him/her.

Ill challenge you.
your wits against my intelligence.

(December 29, 2014 at 6:20 pm)abaris Wrote: Threatening with eternal damnation seems about as useful as aiming an empty water pistol at us.

It works on cops. hock:

I'll argue FOR the existence of God.

1. There must be a first cause. Causation cannot regress infinitely; a succession of events, such as those immediately preceding the present one, could not be added to an actual infinite set. But even if this can be shown to be possible, yet as incomprehensible as a first cause, the evidence in cosmology suggests that time, space, and matter had a beginning, and hence the cause for the world cannot be physical, but must metaphysical or hyperphysical.
2. The cause must be free and not restrained, as a mechanism that is only acting on sufficient conditions would result in another infinite regress.
3. The cause is responsible for finely-tuned order, through a synthesis of plurality in unity that, through intricately determined principles, brought about reflective "selves" who can relate to themselves. As science seeks out simpler principles to explain complex phenomena, our first cause is the most simple of all, a singularity of infinite potential. It contains potentiality to create, through infinitely complex mechanisms, a set of realities, one with beings who possess a taste for the infinite and the finite, chance and necessity, good and evil, in other words, the first cause acts and through its power comes to know itself as a plurality of selves.
4. Nature is the effect of God, and reflects the sublime plurality in unity, chaos in order, evil in good, and all other relational paradoxes that science can only dimly grasp.

:-) Ok, that's all I got for now.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:21 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I'll argue FOR the existence of God.

1. There must be a first cause. Causation cannot regress infinitely; a succession of events, such as those immediately preceding the present one, could not be added to an actual infinite set. But even if this can be shown to be possible, yet as incomprehensible as a first cause, the evidence in cosmology suggests that time, space, and matter had a beginning, and hence the cause for the world cannot be physical, but must metaphysical or hyperphysical.
2. The cause must be free and not restrained, as a mechanism that is only acting on sufficient conditions would result in another infinite regress.
3. The cause is responsible for finely-tuned order, through a synthesis of plurality in unity that, through intricately determined principles, brought about reflective "selves" who can relate to themselves. As science seeks out simpler principles to explain complex phenomena, our first cause is the most simple of all, a singularity of infinite potential. It contains potentiality to create, through infinitely complex mechanisms, a set of realities, one with beings who possess a taste for the infinite and the finite, chance and necessity, good and evil, in other words, the first cause acts and through its power comes to know itself as a plurality of selves.
4. Nature is the effect of God, and reflects the sublime plurality in unity, chaos in order, evil in good, and all other relational paradoxes that science can only dimly grasp.

:-) Ok, that's all I got for now.

1. The universe has no cause or purpose. The reality of it being that we are a live on a planet that supports life and there is millions probably billions of other planets out there that could or already have sentient life forms. But in the grand scheme of things we are just the result chance and nothing more. We are special in a way that yes we are alive we have a planet that supports our life, plants, animals etc. Also we are really lucky to have water in a liquid form.

2. Again there is no cause or purpose it just is or isn't.

3. There is no cause to create our universe created itself within a span of billions of years. To say there needs to be a creator to create complex structures or planets will fall into the same argument god is to complex there for he needs a creator. Believe it or not yes the universe created itself after the big bang. Hydrogen and Helium were the first 2 elements after the big bang to exist they were both super hot they couldn't form bonds given time those molecules cooled down and started forming bonds creating other elements which in turn created our stars. In what what do we need a creator if nature and elements can form on their own without a god or some type of ethereal being to put it together what point does god have to say he created anything if everything just feel into place on its own.

4. Nature is, not the affect of god and can be explained fairly easily. The most simplistic explanation of weather. Basically, the sun heats the earth and its atmosphere causing differences in air temperature. The warm air rises from the equator and travels towards the poles.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 1. The universe has no cause or purpose. The reality of it being that we are a live on a planet that supports life and there is millions probably billions of other planets out there that could or already have sentient life forms. But in the grand scheme of things we are just the result chance and nothing more. We are special in a way that yes we are alive we have a planet that supports our life, plants, animals etc. Also we are really lucky to have water in a liquid form.

But if the universe has no cause then it must be eternal. But big bang cosmology does not paint an eternal universe. So, the universe is probably not eternal, and we are left to wonder what could trigger a beginning of time, space, and matter, and that is what we are justified to conceive as a first cause, or God. Within this first cause exists the potentiality for universes, galaxies, and planets that are hospitable to life, and life that inexplicably evolved complex microscopic machinery, birthing intelligence with a conceptual basis for obscurely conceiving of the eternal, simple, order that is fundamentally responsible for us and whatever else may or may not be out there in the universe.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 2. Again there is no cause or purpose it just is or isn't.

But it could very well be that it just is because it's good to be just as it is.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 3. There is no cause to create our universe created itself within a span of billions of years. To say there needs to be a creator to create complex structures or planets will fall into the same argument god is to complex there for he needs a creator. Believe it or not yes the universe created itself after the big bang. Hydrogen and Helium were the first 2 elements after the big bang to exist they were both super hot they couldn't form bonds given time those molecules cooled down and started forming bonds creating other elements which in turn created our stars. In what what do we need a creator if nature and elements can form on their own without a god or some type of ethereal being to put it together what point does god have to say he created anything if everything just feel into place on its own.

If the universe created itself, it would precede itself, that is, not exist and exist simultaneously, which is simply absurd. The Universe as it exists presently evolved from relatively simpler forms, but did so through laws determined since the beginning of creation which beforehand we are led to suspect was nothinginess or void. But even void then must contain within itself the mechanism, or rather the freedom, to create universes hospitable to beings sufficiently intelligent to reflect on their surroundings and hence, their creator; this void, then, or infinite abyss, is a reflection of our intuitions, our understanding, and in a sense we are reflective of it, created in its image, or what others call God.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 4. Nature is, not the affect of god and can be explained fairly easily. The most simplistic explanation of weather. Basically, the sun heats the earth and its atmosphere causing differences in air temperature. The warm air rises from the equator and travels towards the poles.

Yes, those are effects of causes, which the laws necessitate, but the laws themselves, per the big bang, are not necessary, for they also came into being. Therefore, we justly infer that the laws themselves are conditioned on prior causes, or laws, and the more fundamental these become, the more foreign to our understanding, or the more god-like, they reveal themselves to be.

(December 30, 2014 at 2:27 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 1. The universe has no cause or purpose. The reality of it being that we are a live on a planet that supports life and there is millions probably billions of other planets out there that could or already have sentient life forms. But in the grand scheme of things we are just the result chance and nothing more. We are special in a way that yes we are alive we have a planet that supports our life, plants, animals etc. Also we are really lucky to have water in a liquid form.

But if the universe has no cause then it must be eternal. But big bang cosmology does not paint an eternal universe. So, the universe is probably not eternal, and we are left to wonder what could trigger a beginning of time, space, and matter, and that is what we are justified to conceive as a first cause, or God. Within this first cause exists the potentiality for universes, galaxies, and planets that are hospitable to life, and life that inexplicably evolved complex microscopic machinery, birthing intelligence with a conceptual basis for obscurely conceiving of the eternal, simple, order that is fundamentally responsible for us and whatever else may or may not be out there in the universe.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 2. Again there is no cause or purpose it just is or isn't.

But it could very well be that it just is because it's good to be just as it is.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 3. There is no cause to create our universe created itself within a span of billions of years. To say there needs to be a creator to create complex structures or planets will fall into the same argument god is to complex there for he needs a creator. Believe it or not yes the universe created itself after the big bang. Hydrogen and Helium were the first 2 elements after the big bang to exist they were both super hot they couldn't form bonds given time those molecules cooled down and started forming bonds creating other elements which in turn created our stars. In what what do we need a creator if nature and elements can form on their own without a god or some type of ethereal being to put it together what point does god have to say he created anything if everything just feel into place on its own.

If the universe created itself, it would precede itself, that is, not exist and exist simultaneously, which is simply absurd. The Universe as it exists presently evolved from relatively simpler forms, but did so through laws determined since the beginning of creation which beforehand we are led to suspect was nothinginess or void. But even void then must contain within itself the mechanism, or rather the freedom, to create universes hospitable to beings sufficiently intelligent to reflect on their surroundings and hence, their creator; this void, then, or infinite abyss, is a reflection of our intuitions, our understanding, and in a sense we are reflective of it, created in its image, or what others call God.

(December 30, 2014 at 1:38 pm)dyresand Wrote: 4. Nature is, not the affect of god and can be explained fairly easily. The most simplistic explanation of weather. Basically, the sun heats the earth and its atmosphere causing differences in air temperature. The warm air rises from the equator and travels towards the poles.

Yes, those are effects of causes, which the laws necessitate, but the laws themselves, per the big bang, are not necessary, for they also came into being. Therefore, we justly infer that the laws themselves are conditioned on prior causes, or laws, and the more fundamental these become, the more foreign to our understanding, or the more god-like, they reveal themselves to be.

1. Nothing existed before the big bang so nothing outside of it could have done nothing. First explain how a god could exist because god is A. complex B. your way of thinking contradicts A because you believe anything that is complex requires a creator now apply that logic to A to see the illogical fallacies. Simply put we are a product of chance no reason is required for life to exist simply we exist because of chance not because some magical guy wanted us to exist. Our lives your life my life and everyone's life is chance even before we existed. We were the lucky sperm that got a chance at life while the other millions of sperm were not so lucky. So no there is no cause for life or the big bang.

2. The universe working as intended until eventually maximum entropy is reached and all matter in the universe gets frozen in place due to space reaching absolute 0. On the bright side of things i do not think humanity is going to be around long enough for anyone to experience that. Considering our sun will fry us to a crisp fairly soon in a couple of million years. If we are lucky to survive whats out there then maybe we will see the end of the universe and it would be one hell of a ride.

3. The universe started out at a singularity where all the possible mass and energy was at that one point. Because it was so compressed at a fine point it was unstable and expanded outward creating space time. You don't need a god for that because molecules and matter form on their own. We are not a reflection of the universe or a god though that would be nice though but this is reality. The reality being we are the product of chance a very good chance. Many people back in the 30's 40's 50's didn't really have a good grasp how big space actually is. In reality the universe is large enough and all possibilities and actions exist. One universe that is polar opposite of this one i could be typing into a Christian forum saying that science is wrong and the bible is true. I feel dirty thinking about it but it comes down to this the person polar opposite of me looks like me sounds like me but that person isn't me. So the idea of life or all life in the universe looking the same would be ridiculous it wouldn't right or wrong. They might look extremely different from us because our gravity is suitable and we won't get crushed. So saying we are a reflection from god is also wrong. We are animals we are mammals highly intelligent great apes. We share common ancestors with all the life here on the planet we are all genetically related. Though through evolution we lost our fur our tails our posture is better we are hygiene and wear clothing. So no god is required or needed.

4. Not cause still not a cause. Weather processes such as wind, clouds, and precipitation are all the result of the atmosphere responding to uneven heating of the Earth by the Sun.

The uneven heating causes temperature differences, which in turn cause air currents (wind) to develop, which then move heat from where there is more heat (higher temperatures) to where there is less heat (lower temperatures).

The atmosphere thus becomes a giant "heat engine", continuously driven by the sun. High and low pressure areas, wind, clouds, and precipitation systems are all caused, either directly or indirectly, by this uneven heating and the resulting heat redistribution processes.

Generally speaking, there are two main main modes of this heat redistribution:

(1) VERTICAL heat transport: Solar heating of the Earth's surface makes the atmosphere convectively unstable, causing vertical air currents to develop. This is what causes puffy-looking clouds, showers, and thunderstorms to form in warm air masses.

(2) HORIZONTAL heat transport: Because the Earth is a sphere, it receives more sunlight in the tropics, and less sunlight toward the North and South Poles. This causes horizontal temperature differences to develop, which in turn causes air pressure differences, leading to wind that transports heat from the tropics to the high latitudes.

Together, this uneven heating in both the horizontal and vertical directions in the atmosphere causes everything that we perceive as "weather".

source - http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_weather.htm