Any Theists on AF, I Challenge You to a Debate on the Existence of God

[subsecret]

Dyresand, is it your view that a possible God existence would have to be confined "within" the 'known' universe?

[dyresand]

Dyresand, is it your view that a possible God existence would have to be confined "within" the 'known' universe?

Yes god could not exist outside of universe. All matter cannot exist even energy outside of the universe. Since god ill give every theist here a break and say if he is omini everything and all knowing he cannot be in this dimension as this is the 4th we live on a coordinate grid of x y z we are not a prisoner of the third we are a prisoner of the 4 we cannot control time. The thing being is if a god did exist he would be in a higher dimension since if your jumping out of the 4th that we are in currently you can pretty much go to any point in time in your own life or anyone else's. So if a god did exist he probably would be a higher dimensional being. It would only make senses if god knows everything.

[Mudhammam]

1. Nothing existed before the big bang so nothing outside of it could have done nothing. First explain how a god could exist because god is A. complex B. your way of thinking contradicts A because you believe anything that is complex requires a creator now apply that logic to A to see the illogical fallacies. Simply put we are a product of chance no reason is required for life to exist simply we exist because of chance not because some magical guy wanted us to exist. Our lives your life my life and everyone's life is chance even before we existed. We were the lucky sperm that got a chance at life while the other millions of sperm were not so lucky. So no there is no cause for life or the big bang.

But from nothing, nothing comes. And as something did come, you must explain how it did so, but you cannot appeal to physical laws because physical laws didn't exist until there was something. And given the order in the universe that resulted in intelligence and conscience, one is justified to infer that the cause also contains within it the infinite potentiality for these attributes, or as one might say, with God all things are possible, and as the cause is eternal, one might suggest that this cause exists in a mode quite different than anything we can comprehend, yet perhaps we can feel. And some people do claim to feel a sublimity they describe in such terms. At worse, chance is synonymous with ignorance, and if my metaphysical solution is charged with the same objection, at least it carries benefits for human morale and society, such as in the possibility of establishing universal human rights, and offers the hope of individual purpose, and immortality, that doesn't render the brevity of our lives utterly vain!

2. The universe working as intended until eventually maximum entropy is reached and all matter in the universe gets frozen in place due to space reaching absolute 0. On the bright side of things i do not think humanity is going to be around long enough for anyone to experience that. Considering our sun will fry us to a crisp fairly soon in a couple of million years. If we are lucky to survive whats out there then maybe we will see the end of the universe and it would be one hell of a ride.

What a nightmarish reality to wake up in! What a tragedy! All of this for naught!

3. The universe started out at a singularity where all the possible mass and energy was at that one point. Because it was so compressed at a fine point it was unstable and expanded outward creating space time. You don't need a god for that because molecules and matter form on their own. We are not a reflection of the universe or a god though that would be nice though but this is reality. The reality being we are the product of chance a very good chance. Many people back in the 30's 40's 50's didn't really have a good grasp how big space actually is. In reality the universe is large enough and all possibilities and actions exist. One universe that is polar opposite of this one i could be typing into a Christian forum saying that science is wrong and the bible is true. I feel dirty thinking about it but it comes down to this the person polar opposite of me looks like me sounds like me but that person isn't me. So the idea of life or all life in the universe looking the same would be ridiculous it wouldn't right or wrong. They might look extremely different from us because our gravity is suitable and we won't get crushed. So saying we are a reflection from god is also wrong. We are animals we are mammals highly intelligent great apes. We share common ancestors with all the life here on the planet we are all genetically related. Though through evolution we lost our fur our tails our posture is better we are hygiene and wear clothing. So no god is required or needed.

Yes, you can describe the physics of the early universe until they break down and no longer make much sense, and then explain it perhaps with vibrating strings, but you still have a principle of order that resulted in our universe, with conscious beings who are deeply religious and bound to ask, Why? Perhaps that was the reason we were created, to ask the question, to become selves, for the universe or the creator to actualize its potential. Do you mean to suggest that, given infinite time, due to chance, there may be, or even must be, universes with a flying spaghetti monster or a burning bush that talks? Perhaps a black Jesus who rose from the dead?

4. Not cause still not a cause. Weather processes such as wind, clouds, and precipitation are all the result of the atmosphere responding to uneven heating of the Earth by the Sun.

The uneven heating causes temperature differences, which in turn cause air currents (wind) to develop, which then move heat from where there is more heat (higher temperatures) to where there is less heat (lower temperatures).

The atmosphere thus becomes a giant "heat engine", continuously driven by the sun. High and low pressure areas, wind, clouds, and precipitation systems are all caused, either directly or indirectly, by this uneven heating and the resulting heat redistribution processes.

Generally speaking, there are two main main modes of this heat redistribution:

(1) VERTICAL heat transport: Solar heating of the Earth's surface makes the atmosphere convectively unstable, causing vertical air currents to develop. This is what causes puffy-looking clouds, showers, and thunderstorms to form in warm air masses.

(2) HORIZONTAL heat transport: Because the Earth is a sphere, it receives more sunlight in the tropics, and less sunlight toward the North and South Poles. This causes horizontal temperature differences to develop, which in turn causes air pressure differences, leading to wind that transports heat from the tropics to the high latitudes.

Together, this uneven heating in both the horizontal and vertical directions in the atmosphere causes everything that we perceive as "weather".

source - http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_weather.htm

Yes, those are causes and effects. But weather is the result of laws relating to the environment, those related to more universal laws such as gravity, ultimately related to... the law of orderly emergence through chance?

Ok, I've had my fun arguing as a theist. If someone wants to take over, be my guest.

[fr0d0]

You're doing great pickup carry on

[subsecret]

Yes god could not exist outside of universe. All matter cannot exist even energy outside of the universe.

So the universe is eternal, meaning it always existed in some form.

[dyresand]

1. something did come from something the mass and energy from a singularity.
2. Universe still working as intended and godless before and will be after.
3. Again we are just a result of chance nothing more nothing less. (so enjoy being alive have fun do things)
4. well those are just in reality cause and affect we seasons its a great thing.

have a nice day.

[Esquilax]

Dyresand, is it your view that a possible God existence would have to be confined "within" the 'known' universe?

If it exists outside the known universe, then how do you know about it in order to claim that it exists at all?

[dyresand]

Yes god could not exist outside of universe. All matter cannot exist even energy outside of the universe.

So the universe is eternal, meaning it always existed in some form.

Nope google the big bang theory. Ill link you to a great website.
http://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

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Dyresand, is it your view that a possible God existence would have to be confined "within" the 'known' universe?

If it exists outside the known universe, then how do you know about it in order to claim that it exists at all?

simply put nothing outside our universe could exist. things did exist outside of it one would wonder are we apart of a multiverse.

[Ryantology]

Requiring physical proof is a weakness of mind.

The mind has many weaknesses and can glitch in countless interesting ways. That's why it's nothing short of insane to have faith in a god that doesn't speak out loud, for everyone to hear. Even if you might be right and God is speaking to you, how do you tell it apart from every other sort of hallucination or misunderstanding? Do you know how your brain works so well that you can tell false alarms from holy messages?

Of course you don't. You can't. When you operate under the assumption you do, that's a weakness of the mind.

If you wonder why we can't believe, I think many atheists would agree that the very core of unbelief is that it is logically impossible to have total faith in God (to say nothing of knowledge) without also having equally total faith not only in the integrity of your mind, but in your ability to correctly interpret everything in it.

If you can't justify that kind of faith (and I sure as hell can't), you can't justify faith in an invisible and silent god.

[Alex K]

1. something did come from something the mass and energy from a singularity.

There probably was no singularity in the usual sense though