(January 7, 2015 at 8:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:40 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: This is what happens when religious people really follow the sayings of the so called Holy Books. Both the Bible and the Quran are filled with immmorality, barbaric stories of murder ordered by God, slavery, women and children beating and so on.
Religions must be abolished.

Bullshit, there is no such thing as a utopia and to think we can have an all atheist world is just as absurd.

Humans will always make absurd claims and have bad ideas. And there are even atheists I would not trust with power.

The best we can do as a species is to keep it on a leash.

I'm not defending that immorality is limited to religious people, it's part of the human condition. That would be hypocritical to say.
What i'm saying is that they are following literally the sacred Book, which if you ever read promotes a Holy War against anyone who does not share their beliefs. Same thing for the Crusades hundreds of years before.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:04 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Bullshit, there is no such thing as a utopia and to think we can have an all atheist world is just as absurd.

Humans will always make absurd claims and have bad ideas. And there are even atheists I would not trust with power.

The best we can do as a species is to keep it on a leash.

I'm not defending that immorality is limited to religious people, it's part of the human condition. That would be hypocritical to say.
What i'm saying is that they are following literally the sacred Book, which if you ever read promotes a Holy War against anyone who does not share their beliefs. Same thing for the Crusades hundreds of years before.

Abrahamic religions not peaceful one bit.

(January 7, 2015 at 8:55 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:40 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: This is what happens when religious people really follow the sayings of the so called Holy Books. Both the Bible and the Quran are filled with immmorality, barbaric stories of murder ordered by God, slavery, women and children beating and so on.
Religions must be abolished.

So we counter religious intolerance with atheist intolerance? I don't think so.

How can we not? I'm increasingly more driven to that conclusion. It's such a great evil (how can we stand still and watch hopelessly how it detortes the mind of people) and a barrier agaisnt human progress that one has to think about that possibility (I would like to state that I have no problem with deism or the hypotetical existence of a superior/different being but the concept of God by religion and religion itself is my problem) .
This might not be the best analogy but the dirty work has to be done by someone.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:04 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Bullshit, there is no such thing as a utopia and to think we can have an all atheist world is just as absurd.

Humans will always make absurd claims and have bad ideas. And there are even atheists I would not trust with power.

The best we can do as a species is to keep it on a leash.

I'm not defending that immorality is limited to religious people, it's part of the human condition. That would be hypocritical to say.
What i'm saying is that they are following literally the sacred Book, which if you ever read promotes a Holy War against anyone who does not share their beliefs. Same thing for the Crusades hundreds of years before.

I have gotten raked over the coals by other atheists by agreeing with Hitchens in calling religion poison. But even in saying that you have to be realistic about what can be practically done.

You cannot use a Bobcat to remove a volcano, you have to accept that that volcano will always be there. You can however, study it so that when it does rumble you can get out of the way.

You will never force religion out of existence. You can blaspheme, ridicule and or debate, but you will never be able to get all 7 billion humans on the same page.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:11 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:55 pm)Jenny A Wrote: So we counter religious intolerance with atheist intolerance? I don't think so.

How can we not? I'm increasingly more driven to that conclusion. It's such a great evil (how can we stand still and watch hopelessly how it detortes the mind of people) and a barrier agaisnt human progress that one has to think about that possibility (I would like to state that I have no problem with deism or the hypotetical existence of a superior/different being but the concept of God by religion and religion itself is my problem) .
This might not be the best analogy but the dirty work has to be done by someone.

Count me out. Thoughtcrime is a crummy way to deal with things. Can you not mount a convincing argument for secular society without advocating censorship or abridging freedom of conscience?

(January 7, 2015 at 9:11 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: How can we not? I'm increasingly more driven to that conclusion. It's such a great evil (how can we stand still and watch hopelessly how it detortes the mind of people) and a barrier agaisnt human progress that one has to think about that possibility (I would like to state that I have no problem with deism or the hypotetical existence of a superior/different being but the concept of God by religion and religion itself is my problem) .
This might not be the best analogy but the dirty work has to be done by someone.

Because that way leads to totalitarianism, and I'd just as soon not, thanks. By all means prosecute people for violent crimes done in the name of religion. Criticize religion as loudly as you want. Certainly don't pay for it with tax dollars.

Quote:First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller

I will speak now for the stupid Jews, Christians, and Islamists.

Shit. Religion of my peace my ass. Like I said in another thread; damn every one of them!

(January 7, 2015 at 8:55 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:40 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: This is what happens when religious people really follow the sayings of the so called Holy Books. Both the Bible and the Quran are filled with immmorality, barbaric stories of murder ordered by God, slavery, women and children beating and so on.
Religions must be abolished.

So we counter religious intolerance with atheist intolerance? I don't think so.

This is usually my sentiment. I try to have a cool head and understand the many perspectives involved in whatever situation, but it's hard to give a fuck about a single moderate when the source of their ideology is also the cause of women being buried up to their necks while they have bricks chucked at their head, or a school filled with children being gunned down, or a man tied up in a public square so his head can be lopped off to become a play thing for the neighborhood kids.

Realistically, I know there's not one goddamned thing that can be done to get rid of all religion, and I hate that. I feel helpless. I know, with the same certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow, that Islam will be the cause of a massive amount of children being slaughtered.

(January 7, 2015 at 9:18 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 9:11 pm)100 Years of Solitude Wrote: How can we not? I'm increasingly more driven to that conclusion. It's such a great evil (how can we stand still and watch hopelessly how it detortes the mind of people) and a barrier agaisnt human progress that one has to think about that possibility (I would like to state that I have no problem with deism or the hypotetical existence of a superior/different being but the concept of God by religion and religion itself is my problem) .
This might not be the best analogy but the dirty work has to be done by someone.

Count me out. Thoughtcrime is a crummy way to deal with things. Can you not mount a convincing argument for secular society without advocating censorship or abridging freedom of conscience?

I'm talking about something that i know would never happen or solve anything, on the contrary it would contribute to martyrdom, like Jesus.
It's just a desperate thought of someone who's had enough, seing the things it does in my city, how it leads to massive hysteria.

Now rationally, for me it's always about the next generation, you can't hope to change someone who has absolute faith in God because that is no likely, we can show that religion isn´t needed, it's a thing of a distant past when we couldn't explain certain things or we can promote it's critical analysis in schools to show it's flaws that goes agaisnt what science rightfully claims.

(January 7, 2015 at 8:18 pm)Alex K Wrote:

(January 7, 2015 at 8:13 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: What do the moderates have to do with this?

Dawkins would/will probably say they enable the extremists by making religious thinking acceptable and commonplace.

And he would be right.