(January 19, 2015 at 11:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote: King famously had serious doubts about religion but, hey. In this fucked up country you use any tool you can.

Even hateful bigotry zenophobia agenda as power.

(January 19, 2015 at 10:37 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: So next time an atheist recounts all the bad things men and women of faith have done in the name of God, just think of Dr. King and the great things he accomplished in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Christopher Hitchens said it best.

Quote:Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.

Quote:Name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer.

source

The fact believers do good deeds doesn't prove they wouldn't do it if they weren't religious.

I'm not sure how often (if ever?) there has been a topic here on the astounding racism in the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants, written copies of Brigham Young's sermons, and various other writings of individuals in the Mormon hierarchy.

I note that just about 10 years after the King assassination, the Mormon hierarchy pulled the plug on their institutional racism.

Granted, I find the hinky revelation (via a 'feeling', not a 'Thus saith the Lord' kind of cosmic correction fluid event) and the manner of it's implementation (executive fiat) odious in the extreme, and the actual motivation for the change being due more to the church desiring members in foreign countries and consequently, more money flowing into the Salt Lake City coffers and less to the shaming King cast their way. Still, he gave the Mormons a headache, and set the stage for eventual repudiation of their doctrinal racism.

Additionally, Bayard Rustin worked tirelessly with King, despite the times and the potential for damage to King's leadership, as Senator Strom Thurmond demonstrated. Bayard also was a good friend of Thurgood Marshall. After many decades, President Obama gave Bayard a posthumous medal of freedom.

There are far worse Christers out there than Martin Luther King. Black and white Christians in the homophobe orbit can learn from King. After they get that fixed, we can work on the atheism angle.

Please. Don't chalk his success and his fight up to God. He accomplished that, not God. Why does it always have to be about
God?
Why didn't you choose a quote that actually showed who he was in terms of being a revolutionary?
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged for color, but for the content of their character."
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of convenience and comfort, but where he stands in moments of challenge and controversy."
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Martin Luther King Jr., thank you for standing up for the rights and freedoms which all people deserve equally.

(January 19, 2015 at 11:58 pm)Roxy904 Wrote: Please. Don't chalk his success and his fight up to God. He accomplished that, not God. Why does it always have to be about
God?
Why didn't you choose a quote that actually showed who he was in terms of being a revolutionary?
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged for color, but for the content of their character."
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of convenience and comfort, but where he stands in moments of challenge and controversy."
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Martin Luther King Jr., thank you for standing up for the rights and freedoms which all people deserve equally.

If god had it his way slavery would still be around... just saying god is not the most moral authority there is...

(January 19, 2015 at 11:18 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

(January 19, 2015 at 10:37 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: So next time an atheist recounts all the bad things men and women of faith have done in the name of God, just think of Dr. King and the great things he accomplished in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I do. I also think of how Jim Crow, and the chattel slavery which preceded it, the many and horrible crimes against humanity that Dr. King gave his life to end, and which persist to this day, are also great things accomplished in the name of your lard and savior Jesus Christ. So said many of the people who tried their hardest to oppose civil rights... and still do.

Is that all you think of? Because I also think about all the Southern churches that, at the time, questioned Dr. King's character and religious bearing because of his civil rights stance. I think of the christians who spoke up against him, intimating that fighting for civil rights is unchristian. The ones who urged Dr. King to stop with all his uppity ideas of equality and just preach the gospel. The ones who insisted that the sort of justice King preached was of the devil.

That's what I think of.

I'd feel that I was being disrespectful towards Dr. King if I claimed that he did these great things just because he was told so by his master. He himself may claim religious inspiration, but from my perspective, it was the man who did these things, he had it in him.

My point was you must take the good with the bad. When some atheists rant about the evils tangentially related to Christianity, somehow forget to mention any of the goods specifically mandated by my religion like care for poor, widows, orphans, and the sick.

Besides the fact that I was the only one, a Christian, posting in honor of this great world leader. (unless I missed it, in which case I retract.)

King was born as a black person. In the late 20ies. In the South. I think, his fight had more to do with him being black than him being christian. If he had been a white man with the same date and place of birth, he might have stood on the other side of the fence. Many white christians did.

(January 20, 2015 at 10:47 am)ChadWooters Wrote: My point was you must take the good with the bad. When some atheists rant about the evils tangentially related to Christianity, somehow forget to mention any of the goods specifically mandated by my religion like care for poor, widows, orphans, and the sick.

And our point is that the charity you seem dead set on only focusing on is not a religious act, but a human one, and one that would be happening, christianity or no. Meanwhile, the "tangential" evils are often directly inspired by christianity. Helping people is a human thing, but you wouldn't have anyone killing in the name of the christian god, without the christian god.

I don't think you'd find an atheist here who wouldn't acknowledge the good christian people have done. We just know where that comes from.